Nice article from MIT -- Is Slate Auto’s new electric truck the EV Americans need? [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[19SL80s]

It doesn't even need to be (directly) political. The AI crisis is driving up costs across the board, taking jobs, taking investments and resources that would have gone to other areas. People are paying more for utilities, and AI is even being used for things like "personalized pricing" that will literally charge some people more for the same product or service.

There is at least one crisis that makes most Americans pay more while having less income, and I don't believe that is controversial.

I heard a segment on the radio the other day that brought up another crisis exacerbated by AI. Taxes. People pay them. Robots and AI don’t.

Politicians better think twice about approving all of these data centers, because then they’re going to run out of taxpayer money to waste on enriching themselves and their corporate friends. Not to mention there isn’t any plausible plan to make a profit off of AI services other than displacing workers. The whole thing is a shell game, much like the early promises of the Internet back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, but with even more dire consequences.

 

[Doctors Do Little]

I heard a segment on the radio the other day that brought up another crisis exacerbated by AI. Taxes. People pay them. Robots and AI don’t.

Politicians better think twice about approving all of these data centers, because then they’re going to run out of taxpayer money to waste on enriching themselves and their corporate friends. Not to mention there isn’t any plausible plan to make a profit off of AI services other than displacing workers. The whole thing is a shell game, much like the early promises of the Internet back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, but with even more dire consequences.

Hold up. Who owns the AI and robots? Else we would extend that argument to the robots in Slate manufacturing plants, right?

Someone is always paying taxes, (but not payroll taxes if you are a robot - was that your point?).

 

[RevMS]

Hold up. Who owns the AI and robots? Else we would extend that argument to the robots in Slate manufacturing plants, right?

Someone is always paying taxes, (but not payroll taxes if you are a robot - was that your point?).

Guarantee you that some politicians or think tank right now is trying to figure out how to tax the work being done by AI that was formerly done by tax paying worker bees.

 

[KevinRS]

Hold up. Who owns the AI and robots? Else we would extend that argument to the robots in Slate manufacturing plants, right?

Someone is always paying taxes, (but not payroll taxes if you are a robot - was that your point?).

Payroll taxes would be a big part. Replace employees with tech, and no more payroll taxes paid. corporate taxes are lower, sure taxes get paid on dividends, but those may be considered capital gains and so get a lower rate.

 

[AZFox]

The whole thing is a shell game, much like the early promises of the Internet back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, but with even more dire consequences.

And look what consequences happened. We got this forum! 😁

Seriously though, it's not all gloom and doom. This kind of thing has happened before. The Jevens effect will kick in somewhere along the line, if it hasn't already.

The Jevons paradox (pronounced /ˈdʒɛ.vənz/, JEV-ənz) or Jevons effect is an economic phenomenon said to occur when technological improvements that increase the efficiency of a resource's use lead to a rise, rather than a fall, in total consumption of that resource.​

The resource in question being labor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

 

[19SL80s]

Hold up. Who owns the AI and robots? Else we would extend that argument to the robots in Slate manufacturing plants, right?

Someone is always paying taxes, (but not payroll taxes if you are a robot - was that your point?).

I mean the humanoid robots that are being designed to replace human workers en masse, not the ones that already exist to assist with manufacturing. We’ve had those for decades.

If a large portion of your labor force is displaced by humanoid robots running AI then those workers are not paying into systems, like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

The billionaires that run these AI and robotics companies are not paying their fair share of taxes either.

 

[19SL80s]

And look what consequences happened. We got this forum! 😁

Seriously though, it's not all gloom and doom. This kind of thing has happened before. The Jevens effect will kick in somewhere along the line, if it hasn't already.

The Jevons paradox (pronounced /ˈdʒɛ.vənz/, JEV-ənz) or Jevons effect is an economic phenomenon said to occur when technological improvements that increase the efficiency of a resource's use lead to a rise, rather than a fall, in total consumption of that resource.​

The resource in question being labor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

You have to have price elasticity for that to work. This is the current state of AI from a business/profitability standpoint.

“AI is not profitable primarily because the costs of developing and running AI systems are extremely high, often outpacing the revenue generated from their use. Many companies in the AI sector have reported significant losses, with around 95% of businesses investing in AI failing to make money from it.”

What these tech companies want you to do is get hooked on AI, so that you can’t function without it, particularly to do your job. This is kind of like how social media was designed to be addictive and has now eroded human interaction to the point of increasing anxiety and depression, especially among the young who were born into this system of control.

AI will also erode relationships by setting unrealistic expectations through sycophantic virtual romances, the undoing of the creative industry by scraping and regurgitating everything on the internet over and over again until there isn’t any original bespoke curated content, only a copy of a copy of a copy remixed as a million different versions of slop, and our ability to drive, park, etc. through the use of autonomous driving.

 

[Doctors Do Little]

I mean the humanoid robots that are being designed to replace human workers en masse, not the ones that already exist to assist with manufacturing. We’ve had those for decades.

If a large portion of your labor force is displaced by humanoid robots running AI then those workers are not paying into systems, like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

The billionaires that run these AI and robotics companies are not paying their fair share of taxes either.

Even in our “new economy” where debt doesn’t matter anymore, that’s not sustainable.

Guess we gotta get smarter in retooling our skillsets (ain’t no robots gonna dig a 50’ ditch to run a new water line to my house while avoiding gas, power, internet, cable, and dog lines and jackhammer through GA rock this weekend! Nope, I’m paying BIG bucks to a father son plumbing team!).

Catch 22…work really hard to become “rich” and eventually retire…or know that they will come after my retirement someday and so why bother?

Thank goodness I have other skills that will survive Skynet.

 

[Johnologue]

Anyways, just wanna add that the website looked like this when I opened it (though it was zoomed in 150% from last time I was on the site...still horrible). Who thought this was okay?

 

[AZFox]

You have to have price elasticity for that to work.

There is price elasticity in the labor market, so we're good there.

Fax machines didn't put the Post Office out of business. Word Processors didn't put typists out of work either.

 

[AZFox]

but again, I think it's best to leave politics at the door in this forum.

Contradict yourself much?

 

[Doctors Do Little]

I believe you're completely correct on the Lightning being a failure on merit (I've seen a 150K capacity vs. ~30K average sales in '24-'25), but I believe the perception that BEVs are failing because of political backlash and unfriendly policy is common.

Looking at the article, the tax credit is literally one sentence. It's not a hit piece, it's a touching piece on what appears to be a very sore spot.

There are problems with this, taxes aside. Employing humans is a social necessity, because we need a consumer class to have an economy and generally need to provide for human survival and standard of living anyways (that is, on a basic level, the point of society).

AI is doing jobs humans are good at poorly (with the promise of infinite future improvement) and at subsidized rates, while humans are disadvantaged by factors...enough of which are just political enough that I'll withhold any specific comment.

The important part is that, in practice, hiring humans is harder than buying tokens, and that's also why the gig/app economy exists.

Of course, Sam Altman and friends have the strongest "collective bargaining power" of any "employee", so that deal will be altered further, indefinitely. More costs, fewer workers, which means fewer consumers and less money, which lowers volume, which raises costs and lowers profits...the feedback loop here is entirely destructive. You need constructive feedback loops to make society work.

The really big AI figures say things like "tax robots and give everyone UBI or something" because it sounds utopian, but that's not happening anytime soon, they know it, and it's only a band-aid on a problem they're actively maximizing. There's no possible way their rate of investment, which drives up their material costs, debt, power costs, etc., isn't far past the point of diminishing returns. They're using money to strangle competition and resistance (for example, if hardware wasn't monopolized, businesses would move to local hardware instead of accepting rising token rates from datacenters).


I've been saying this since 3rd grade: Humanoid robots are ugly and stupid. Especially the ONE "iPhone as a mannequin" design every AI company seems to be making these days...


Not everyone is good at skilled manual labor. Some people are good at creative work, at management (not that those people are the management), etc. As I recall, this was a criticism of the Soviet system - people could not choose their work? Cold War was before my time.

Good points. The Soviet system failed for many reasons but it especially underestimated the creativity of the young that were not part of the Politburo class. That and we worked very hard to dismantle them in every way imaginable through subterfuge and outright obstinacy (Kennedy, Reagan, etc).

Elon is selling utopia…he thinks differently and seems unencumbered by any intrinsic morality about the dignity of human work…and he’s not above cracking a few hundred million eggs to make an intergalactic omelette.

I love to work. I will always figure something to do for as long as my health allows it. But I’m a purposeful pragmatist that is quasi positive about our reasons to be here, but I might also be dead wrong.

Maybe I’ll get a top bunk in the Gulag?

 

[dcoldone]

Contradict yourself much?

might as well leave the catty remarks at the door with the politics while we're at it. i'm going to go back to lurking.

 

[Johnologue]

Contradict yourself much?

I don't believe what they said was out of line.

They acknowledged an uncontroversial reality that EVs went from being favored to disfavored, and this affected the Lightning. The language used is not celebratory regarding that change, but that's hardly expected from an EV forum.

They even had the relevant context of being familiar with MIT TR. Don't just "gotcha, hypocrite!" people when you see an opening, you're chilling participation.

This isn't Reddit.

Contradict yourself much?

 

[petefromwisconsin]

There are some "Price Coming Soon" items that could put me higher, but adding all the accessories and everything, my high score in the Maker currently sits at $46,488.36 (which doesn't include destination or any fees, of course -- them's the rules for the Most Expensive Slate Maker game).

I started with the Fastback, added Crayola, covered that entirely with partial wraps, and so on. A full breakdown is inside this spoiler button (to keep the post small).

Spoiler: High-Score Breakdown

$31,950.00​	Fastback SUV
1,549.99​	Crayola Collab
679.99​	Upper Partial Wrap (Magic Hour)
359.99​	Roof Partial Wrap (Magic Hour)
649.99​	Lower Partial Wrap (Magic Hour)
1,099.99​	Grit and Grind
229.99​	Shoulder Decals (Magic Hour)
139.99​	Accent Decals (Magic Hour)
169.99​	Gumball Bumper Stripe
429.99​	Multicolor Racing Stripe
589.99​	The Doer Body Decal
349.99​	Front Lamp Upgrade | Animated
499.99​	Tail Lamp Upgrade | Animated
279.95​	3" Light Pods
39.99​	The Five Switch | Upgrade Version
799.95​	40" Rooftop Light Bar
299.99​	Front Fog Lights
499.99​	Front Bumper Upgrade
299.95​	Rock Light Kit
124.99​	Fastback Roof T-Rail
499.99​	Cab Rack System
349.99​	Fastback Cab Rack Extension
54.94​	One-Key System | 2-Pack
599.99​	Rear Bumper Upgrade
949.00​	COR Portable Battery Generator
100.00​	Tailgate Lock Kit
99.99​	2" Rear Hitch Receiver Kit
599.95​	Outpace 2-Bike Rack
349.99​	Running Boards
59.99​	Synthwave Grille Plate
149.99​	Fender Flares
104.99​	SUV Rear Bolster Insert
64.99​	Door Bolster Insert
49.99​	Door Armrest
99.99​	SUV Rear Armrest
49.99​	The Throwback Interior Decal
249.99​	Front Center Integrated Speaker
149.99​	Front Left + Right Integrated Speakers
44.99​	Interior Accessory T-Rail | B-Pillar
14.99​	Interior Accessory T-Rail | HVAC
29.99​	Frunk Cargo Hooks
49.99​	Door Cubby Organizers
249.99​	Center Console
69.99​	Carpet Floor Mats | Front Seat
74.99​	SUV All-Weather Floor Liner | Back Seat
49.99​	All-Weather Floor Liner | Frunk
275.00​	Slate Telematics Module
$46,488.36​	TOTAL SCORE

That is quite the achievement. It makes me look like a cheapskate with my tally of $33,100 for the fastback SUV version with what I thought was a lot of goodies.