No Vehicle to Load or Outlets in Bed/Frunk

[Mad Mac]

Excess energy! Curtailing energy?

Maybe the utility companies should use the excess energy to mine cryptocurrency.

Do I have to think of everything?

 

[KevinRS]

Lots of good points with one exception to your point regarding net metering rates. I'm not sure how all electric utilities do it nationwide but locally billing has a consumption component and a distribution component. The distribution portion of the bill covers maintaining the infrastructure to deliver and distribute the electricity and thus, make money to maintain the system.

Around here there is a basic useage charge that is just a fixed charge, some non-bypassable charges based on use, and charges and credits based on use and generation at different times of the day, both on the generation and distribution portions.

 

[mountainbear111]

Just heard back on an inquiry about vehicle to load and outlets in the Slate, and I’m a little bummed about the response. I asked if it would have V2L capability and if there would be outlets in the bed or frunk of the vehicle and the vague response was that there would be neither in the initial production model. I understand the goal is simple and affordable, but it would really increase its functionality as a work truck if it had some outlets in the bed for running power tools. Not a deal breaker for me, but hopefully it’s something that changes. The agent said they’ve heard this request from a lot of people.

I want bidirectional charging as well. And a 110 outlet is essential for charging tool batteries

 

[metroshot]

I want bidirectional charging as well. And a 110 outlet is essential for charging tool batteries

Maybe a later version or an upgrade kit?

The initial rollout at $25K will most likely prevent Slate from building in such a costly inverter.

 

[kotaKat]

I wonder what the HVDC inverter capacity will be back to the onboard 12V battery. That could be an option to run some loads from the Slate.

I currently have a 2kW inverter in my Fusion Hybrid tied to the 12v battery, leveraging the ~140A available from the HV-LV inverter as generation back to the battery. I can happily run the car for a while letting the engine cycle on every 30-40 minutes for a 10 minute run boosting back up the HV pack to let the LV pack keep topped up while the AC loads crank away in the house. I think I've used something like 1/4 of a tank of fuel for about 8-10 hours of runtime with this configuration.

(for what it's worth in this setup, the Fusion Hybrid only has a 1.4kWh battery pack, so I'm constantly required to have an engine cycle the pack back up to full charge, but it doesn't run very long to get fully charged again, but lasts quite some time between cycles.)

 

[catiare]

This could work as gap until they come up with actual outlets in the bed.

https://roamenergy.tech/products/tesla-ev-discharger

Reviews of this product are mixed but It uses the NACS standard.

 

[solartogo]

This could work as gap until they come up with actual outlets in the bed.

https://roamenergy.tech/products/tesla-ev-discharger

Reviews of this product are mixed but It uses the NACS standard.

Link indicates the device uses "Power Bridge Standard". While it may use a NACS connector, is the "Power Bridge Standard" universally supported by all vehicles using NACS connectors? The link indicates only some Tesla vehicles are compatible, and of course doesn't mention Slate at all, but the limitation to only some Tesla vehicles makes me wonder if the "Power Bridge Standard" is an optional feature of NACS, not a guaranteed feature.

Google was pretty quiet about what the "Power Bridge Standard" might be.

Ah, this video explains that the "Power Bridge Standard" is a Roam Energy "standard", using a technique that "tricks" the car into thinking it is getting fast charged, but that apparently causes the car to expose the battery power to the DC fast charger terminals, which allows external equipment (like their devices) to have an inverter to generate AC power from the car battery.

 

[EV Trek]

Well I was an Electrician and Instrument mechanic for 15 years and then moved to Electrical and Instrumentation engineering for the next 17 years for a large Chemical and Plastics manufacturer until I retired, I might be able figure out a way to add a couple power outlets if Slate does not do it first.
Not having any won’t bother me.

 

[catiare]

Link indicates the device uses "Power Bridge Standard". While it may use a NACS connector, is the "Power Bridge Standard" universally supported by all vehicles using NACS connectors? The link indicates only some Tesla vehicles are compatible, and of course doesn't mention Slate at all, but the limitation to only some Tesla vehicles makes me wonder if the "Power Bridge Standard" is an optional feature of NACS, not a guaranteed feature.

Google was pretty quiet about what the "Power Bridge Standard" might be.

Ah, this video explains that the "Power Bridge Standard" is a Roam Energy "standard", using a technique that "tricks" the car into thinking it is getting fast charged, but that apparently causes the car to expose the battery power to the DC fast charger terminals, which allows external equipment (like their devices) to have an inverter to generate AC power from the car battery.

The website says only Tesla S/3/X/Y with CCS protocol - which is the same the Slate will have. The video from state of charge states that the technology is compliant with the NACS standard so let’s see. Hopefully by that time they will have all the certifications needed.

 

[phidauex]

This could work as gap until they come up with actual outlets in the bed.

https://roamenergy.tech/products/tesla-ev-discharger

Reviews of this product are mixed but It uses the NACS standard.

Hmm, their newer Powerbridge Pro, kickstarter funded and expecting to ship this month, is compatible with a much wider range of vehicles, including a long list of CCS1 software vehicles, with both CCS connectors and NACS connectors. It also has a 7,500W maximum, and has 240V output (though they clarify strongly that it is 240V with no neutral, not 120/240V split phase, so using it to backfeed, say, a home panel would require an autotransformer to derive the neutral).

It's not wildly cheap, but not wildly expensive either. I'll track it and maybe get one to replace my much jankier 12V backup solution I'm using with my MachE now. If it works well then it should work for both the MachE (through the NACS/CCS adapter) and the Slate directly.

It also shines a bit of a light on why Slate didn't include this as a default option. Their 3500W unit is $1200, and the 7500W unit is $1900. That is about what it would cost to integrate it directly into the vehicle. I think if they offered a $1000 120V option and a $1500V 240V option some people would go for it, but others would balk, and clearly it wouldn't be worth raising the price of the Blank Slate to $26,000 just to include.

 

[solartogo]

Hmm, their newer Powerbridge Pro, kickstarter funded and expecting to ship this month, is compatible with a much wider range of vehicles, including a long list of CCS1 software vehicles, with both CCS connectors and NACS connectors. It also has a 7,500W maximum, and has 240V output (though they clarify strongly that it is 240V with no neutral, not 120/240V split phase, so using it to backfeed, say, a home panel would require an autotransformer to derive the neutral).

The video I mentioned a few posts ago is probably why they emphasize the lack of a neutral. That reviewer told them about that issue after they suggested it could backfeed a home panel... he had to retract an earlier video.

With his review version (possibly pre-production), when you enable 240V, you get it on the 110 outlets also, which he emphasized. Maybe they'll fix that too?

Would be nice if they got it UL listed, and/or some other trusted certifications. Although personally, the first model, with only 120V, would satisfy my needs, if they get it certified.

 

[phidauex]

The video I mentioned a few posts ago is probably why they emphasize the lack of a neutral. That reviewer told them about that issue after they suggested it could backfeed a home panel... he had to retract an earlier video.

With his review version (possibly pre-production), when you enable 240V, you get it on the 110 outlets also, which he emphasized. Maybe they'll fix that too?

Would be nice if they got it UL listed, and/or some other trusted certifications. Although personally, the first model, with only 120V, would satisfy my needs, if they get it certified.

The inverter inside is probably a single phase, 120V or 240V, 30A output, and it can be sent to either plug set. They do mention in some of the materials now that if you enable 240V mode, it disables the 120V outlets, so there is probably a relay that switches between the two output plugs when the mode changes, which is wise.

They could have solved both problems by including an autotransformer inside the unit, but it would have made it heavier, more costly, and started to get further from what they are trying to offer - mobile power. They mention that a Gen 3 non-portable version is being worked on that would do both charging and discharging, and be setup to integrate with a home load center through a generator inlet or transfer switch.

In this case, you can still do 240V to a home panel, you just need an autotransformer between this unit and the panel tie breaker. An autotransformer can step up from 120 to 240, down from 240 to 120, or in this case, derive a neutral from a single phase 240V circuit. They cost $400-500, and would be permanently installed next to your load center.

This 32A Victron unit is pretty slick, and has overcurrent protection and status lights built in. There are simpler ones out there as well. https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Autotransformer-32A-and-100A-EN.pdf