Slate board member discusses the truck on Motoman podcast

[Doctors Do Little]

Hmmm, neither here, but a good friend is picking up some ribeyes to grill here on Saturday. Will grill on my Primo.

Rub it in, David, rub it in…

 

[sidneyhornblower]

- This is a must see/listen for engineers. He speaks your language, and you will cringe at the problems he discusses because he clearly lived them. You may be living them right now.

Agreed. Though I'm not an engineer, much of my adult work life was spent in various industrial plants and this guy very much speaks the language. This one interview - annoying host and all - has done more to calm my jitters about buying a Slate than any other video I've watched.

And all the points you've raised in this thread are spot on. There's some terrific information dissemination happening in this video and I hope more people sit through the entire thing because it's well worth the time if you're a fan of manufacturing or you have experience with all the problems and issues that arise there.

 

[E90400K]

I'm half-way in, and need to step away. But I want to quickly add a few things about the first half which are probably less about the car, and more about the philosophy of the company and himself:

- This is a must see/listen for engineers. He speaks your language, and you will cringe at the problems he discusses because he clearly lived them. You may be living them right now.
- They go in depth on the Amazon connection. Basically, Bezos is an investor but is mostly hands off. The other Jeff (Wilke) is more direct, gives a strong connection to Re:Build, and there are other key employees from Amazon.
- Re:Build, look it up. Slate incubated out of Re:Build. There's a strong story about bringing manufacturing back to the USA. This isn't just talk, it is real. Can our country do it? Slate wants to be part of it.
- He spent time at Rivian. He goes into depth on the things he thinks they did wrong that Slate is avoiding. Nutshell: keep it simple, Rivian went right to complexity straight away which caused production hell.

This was an interesting podcast. It touches on a lot of things my belief system is centered on. So just to frame my background, I started my career manufacturing aerospace products in an American manufacturing plant and have worked in several over my career. Personally, out of the 14 cars I've owned one (1) was manufactured in Japan, three (3) in Germany, the other 10 manufactured in the USA.

In my college days I incisively argued about the importance of (keeping) manufacturing in the USA, especially with my Econ professor, who argued otherwise (he's now an economic SME for a major news network - LOL). I was happy the pandemic exposed the issues of outsourced supply chain because finally the people in my circle understood WTF I have been talking about for decades. Made in the USA is just not a cheap mantra for me; I put my money where my mouth is. I seek out USA made products and am happy to pay more for them vs. a foreign equivalent. I refuse to buy outsourced shit from Walmart; I've never set foot in one. So, this whole RE:Build Manufacturing meme has my interest. It's an important part of my interest in Slate.

But to your question, can our country do it? My fear is it can't. I think we have passed the point of turnaround. I blame Phil Knight (Nike) for the quagmire. His MBA thesis was about off-shoring manufacturing to maximize profits, while keeping design and business management in the USA. What he failed to understand is the white-collar jobs involved in product development and manufacture eventually follow the manufacturing process. Our country has lost a great deal of the brainbase that is the core of manufacturing: the engineering. It has evolved to the point over the past 40+ of outsourcing and off-shoring that our schools at the high school and college level no longer teach the disciplines that are the base of manufacturing. I hope I am wrong.

IMO, of course.

 

[E90400K]

If I was the interviewer, I would have asked what the decision was behind replacing Barman as CEO with Faricy.

 

[tubes]

But to your question, can our country do it? My fear is it can't. I think we have passed the point of turnaround. I blame Phil Knight (Nike) for the quagmire. His MBA thesis was about off-shoring manufacturing to maximize profits, while keeping design and business management in the USA. What he failed to understand is the white-collar jobs involved in product development and manufacture eventually follow the manufacturing process. Our country has lost a great deal of the brainbase that is the core of manufacturing: the engineering. It has evolved to the point over the past 40+ of outsourcing and off-shoring that our schools at the high school and college level no longer teach the disciplines that are the base of manufacturing. I hope I am wrong.

Yes we have lost a lot of brainbase. It my first Megacorp (80s, 90s) everything was made in house. Yes, there were some resistors and what have you manufactured overseas, but very little.

At my second Megacorp (my startup was in between), we started all in house (late 90s) and by 2010, nothing in the US. All overseas. And then there was the copying and counterfeits, so easy to do once you relinquish control. But I digress... It was very sad and got me disinterested in my career pretty quick.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

>> our schools at the high school and college level no longer teach the disciplines that are the base of manufacturing

I remember loving shop class in the late sixties, even though I ended up in college. Around tenth grade they asked you pick a colllege track or an industrial track, and both were respected.

One of the things Sandy Munro and Jim Farley have been hitting hard is that our society changed to sneer at the trades. That elitism led us to where we are now, an ugly economic and social divide. I'd be the last person to pretend to know how it'll all turn out. But it's sure gonna be interesting.

I think this sneering reached its peak with the famous "deplorables" comment.

 

[E90400K]

>> our schools at the high school and college level no longer teach the disciplines that are the base of manufacturing

I remember loving shop class in the late sixties, even though I ended up in college. Around tenth grade they asked you pick a colllege track or an industrial track, and both were respected.

One of the things Sandy Munro and Jim Farley have been hitting hard is that our society changed to sneer at the trades. That elitism led us to where we are now, an ugly economic and social divide. I'd be the last person to pretend to know how it'll all turn out. But it's sure gonna be interesting.

I think this sneering reached its peak with the famous "deplorables" comment.

Oh, how so frickin true!!!!

 

[E90400K]

Yes we have lost a lot of brainbase. It my first Megacorp (80s, 90s) everything was made in house. Yes, there were some resistors and what have you manufactured overseas, but very little.

At my second Megacorp (my startup was in between), we started all in house (late 90s) and by 2010, nothing in the US. All overseas. And then there was the copying and counterfeits, so easy to do once you relinquish control. But I digress... It was very sad and got me disinterested in my career pretty quick.

This is why I have my undies in a bunch over Faricy. He seems to me to be the Wall Street type that will work for stock price (i.e. dividends) over intrinsic value of a company, which is its employees. We'll have to see how RE:Build Manufacturing stays involved once Slate goes IPO and the management slips into the typical Harvard Business School model of off shoring.

 

[Doctors Do Little]

This is why I have my undies in a bunch over Faricy. He seems to me to be the Wall Street type that will work for stock price (i.e. dividends) over intrinsic value of a company, which is its employees. We'll have to see how RE:Build Manufacturing stays involved once Slate goes IPO and the management slips into the typical Harvard Business School model of off shoring.

The solution won’t happen but would ensure quality: make it an employee owned company and get out of the way.

I worked for Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) for 7 years and loved it while it was a privately held employee owned meritocracy.

We worked hard, dreamed up solutions to the hardest problems and were rewarded with greater stake in the company as we progressed. SAIC went public (then split), and I cashed out. I greatly admire that model and wonder if we will ever see it again at that scale.

 

[E90400K]

The solution won’t happen but would ensure quality: make it an employee owned company and get out of the way.

I worked for Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) for 7 years and loved it while it was a privately held employee owned meritocracy.

We worked hard, dreamed up solutions to the hardest problems and were rewarded with greater stake in the company as we progressed. SAIC went public (then split), and I cashed out. I greatly admire that model and wonder if we will ever see it again at that scale.

We had SAIC as a sub on my project. We had two guys that were really sharp engineers. It was a good company when private, great to work with. They both bailed too. Sad.

 

[sodamo]

Had some SAIC in my past. 🤐

 

[Susan]

>> our schools at the high school and college level no longer teach the disciplines that are the base of manufacturing

I remember loving shop class in the late sixties, even though I ended up in college. Around tenth grade they asked you pick a colllege track or an industrial track, and both were respected.

One of the things Sandy Munro and Jim Farley have been hitting hard is that our society changed to sneer at the trades. That elitism led us to where we are now, an ugly economic and social divide. I'd be the last person to pretend to know how it'll all turn out. But it's sure gonna be interesting.

I think this sneering reached its peak with the famous "deplorables" comment.

Kids should be offered a range of classes, including shop, that can spark life long interests. Or at the very least, that would give them skills they need to live. Cooking, how to do basic household repairs, playing a musical instrument, art - especially how to draw, foreign languages are all things that kids should be exposed to and that they may end up loving, no matter where their futures lead them.

I don't know anyone who sneers at the trades. Everyone I know has a lot of respect for them. It sounds like there are people out there who want to stir up division among the working class (which is everyone who has to work for a living, no matter what kind of job). That goes for Munro and Farley and for any political figure who is so detached from the real world to say such stupid things.

 

[tubes]

I don't know about sneering, but I can say our school district has disrespected the importance of hands-on skills. Both shop and cooking classes were dismantled and the teachers laid off or given retirement. My friend taught shop and was let go. He visited a few months later and saw the band saw out on the courtyard rusting. Disrespect, stupidity and neglect of taxpayers funding. Damn shame.

 

[phidauex]

I don't know anyone who sneers at the trades. Everyone I know has a lot of respect for them. It sounds like there are people out there who want to stir up division among the working class (which is everyone who has to work for a living, no matter what kind of job).

I work in the utilities business, and generally the respect for trade and craft is high. Sometimes to the point of putting people on a pedestal which can be a bit odd - a job well done is satisfying and valuable whether it is plumbing or accounting. But everyone knows that the work we do wouldn't get done without everyone participating at a high level, and we know that the people in the trade and craft roles are furthest from their families and exposed to the greatest number of hazards. I regularly remind my team that one of our biggest jobs in the engineering side is to make sure their work goes as smoothly as possible.

I do see signs of returning to more balanced education - where I live is highly tech industry driven, tons of good STEM programs, but the high schools have good trade programs as well. One that has been particularly successful is a modular home building facility (NIMBYs in the area actually argued against it), where high school students can learn how buildings are designed and built, and then work at the actual production facility (with limits on hours and still connected to curriculum, not just child labor). I've toured the facility and the work is very good - well designed, precise construction, safe methods and equipment, etc. Everyone there, instructors and students, seemed legitimately proud of what they were building and how.

Hopefully more programs like that continue to build - there are real trade deserts in this country, and when that gets hollowed out, nothing else can happen. Even the hot topic of data centers can't happen without excavators, masons, pipefitters, electricians, carpenters, teamsters, and everything in between. Anywhere that fully lost those capabilities can't take advantage of current growth.

 

[KevinRS]

In many instances shop classes ended up being where the "bad students" ended up being dumped, for an easy passing grade. That combined with the costs of equipping a "real" shop class without somehow getting grants or something means many of those programs died.