Tire thoughts: air pressure sensors (TPMS) and alternate spare tire options

[KevinRS]

Is the basic default still just a dash indicator? or is something more required? My guess would be Slate would have the minimum.

 

[E90400K]

They are, just indirectly. I now know my neighbor's TPMS ids, because I visually correlated them arriving home and their IDs appearing on my scanner. The process is called "fingerprinting" where you take a lot of bits of information that are not individually identifiable, but assemble them into a uniquely identifiable person. Each piece of information you add improves the accuracy of every other piece of information.

Browser fingerprinting is the electronic version of that - you might think that something like your browser window size, or the exact version of Chrome you use isn't individually identifiable, but it turns out that with 5 or 6 pieces of information like that, you can sift one person out of the haystack and follow them around the internet.

ALPR cameras, TPMS sensors, etc., all work the same way, but for physical presence. Again, not saying you need to go rip out your TPMS system, but when systems like that are designed, they should be designed to be zero-trust from the get go.

EDIT: If you want to check what kind of information is in your browser fingerprint, you can use this EFF tool. It is from a reputable source, and makes it easy to see your browser session through the eyes of a tracking service. https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/

But the only reason you know what TPMS sensors are tied to who of your neighbors is because you see your neighbors park then correlate the IDs to your neighbor's car. So you know your neighbors are home because you see them park.

 

[tubes]

Is the basic default still just a dash indicator? or is something more required? My guess would be Slate would have the minimum.

All that is required is a dash indicator. That's what we're going to get I suspect. My 3 other cars all have this and we survive. When it comes on, I simply get out and find the culprit with a gauge or visual quick look.

I know some cars have these huge displays showing pressures with little diagrams of the tires. Remember what Barman and others have said in their interviews: (I paraphrase) "It is refreshing to have no screens and no clutter. There's something liberating about that."

 

[mr.wolfie]

But the only reason you know what TPMS sensors are tied to who of your neighbors is because you see your neighbors park then correlate the IDs to your neighbor's car. So you know your neighbors are home because you see them park.

True, but it is very easy to automate the correlation between a read license plate to other data received at the same time. Get the same plate with the same electronic id 3+ times and it's pretty much guaranteed, especially if those data points aren't near each other or common route. Been working 3 years at a company that does a lot of software and more and more hardware for police agencies coast to coast (nothing with vehicles.. anymore.. )

 

[E90400K]

True, but it is very easy to automate the correlation between a read license plate to other data received at the same time. Get the same plate with the same electronic id 3+ times and it's pretty much guaranteed, especially if those data points aren't near each other or common route. Been working 3 years at a company that does a lot of software and more and more hardware for police agencies coast to coast (nothing with vehicles.. anymore.. )

 

[BlackFlagBop]

Amusing because the direction of this thread focuses on maintaining privacy against businesses that want to collect your personal information. The article was shared as a warning against data collection. Even the article title itself is about data collection.

Now, is that irony, contradiction, or simple cognitive dissonance? 🙄

My bad, I usually read 404 Media in an RSS reader and forgot that there's a paywall outside of that. Like I said originally, the idea that TPMS itself is going to be much (if any) of an additional privacy violation on top of the already existing mass surveilling ALPR & FLOCK cameras that are damn near ubiquitous in a lot of regions is a bit laughable, but it's the feature creep and the impending slope that I tend to see as an issue.

Here's the text:

A surveillance company plans to add sensors to automatic license plate readers (ALPRs) that would mean the devices, as well as capture the license plate of passing vehicles, would also sweep up unique identifiers of mobile phones, wearables, and other Bluetooth-enabled devices in those cars, potentially letting law enforcement identify specific drivers or passengers.

The technology, called SignalTrace, would turn ALPR cameras from devices focused on tracking cars to ones that can more readily track the location of particular people. ALPR cameras have become a commonly deployed technology all across the U.S.; SignalTrace would make some of those cameras capable of collecting much more data.
💡
Do you know anything else about SignalTrace? Do you work for Leonardo? I would love to hear from you. Using a non-work device, you can message me securely on Signal at joseph.404 or send me an email at [email protected].

SignalTrace “bridges license plate recognition data with sensor-captured device identifiers—such as those from mobile phones, Bluetooth wearables, and vehicle systems—to create a unique, trackable ‘electronic fingerprint’ for investigative use,” according to a product sheet describing the tool, written by surveillance company Leonardo, which advertises SignalTrace.

The sort of data Leonardo says SignalTrace can sweep up includes the RFID tags in key cards and pet microchips; devices with Bluetooth such as wireless headphones, fitness trackers, and mobile phones; components of a car like tire pressure sensors and infotainment systems; and Wi-Fi sources such as vehicle hotspots and laptops, according to the product sheet.
This Company Will Add Phone, AirPod, and Smartwatch Trackers to License Plate Readers
This Company Will Add Phone, AirPod, and Smartwatch Trackers to License Plate Readers

Screenshots of the product sheet, available here.

The idea is to correlate these unique device identifiers to a license plate. If a Leonardo camera detects a license plate and sees where a vehicle was at a specific time, it can then allegedly link those unique device identifiers to it.

The sheet suggests SignalTrace collects this data for it to be searched by law enforcement much later. One line says SignalTrace “stores device and correlation data securely in the EOC [Enterprise Operations Center] for future queries and analysis.”

“When multiple devices consistently move together with a vehicle, SignalTrace’s algorithms link them to that vehicle’s license plate and time-stamped location data. This correlation provides investigators with another layer of actionable intelligence, even if a suspect changes or removes a plate,” the sheet reads.

Leonardo sells ALPR cameras and communications equipment to law enforcement, border security, and other government agencies. Its U.S. arm has contracts with U.S. Special Operations Command and the General Services Administration, according to procurement records maintained by the transparency website Widely Reported.

404 Media has previously covered how other ALPR companies want to bridge the gap between vehicle and occupant. Flock, for example, has created a system called Nova, to supplement license plate data with other pieces of information. 404 Media revealed the company planned to use hacked data from previous data breaches to “jump from LPR to person.” Flock said it decided to not use hacked data in Nova after 404 Media’s coverage and internal pressure.

Leonardo did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My bad, I usually read 404 Media in an RSS reader and forgot that there's a paywall outside of that. Like I said originally, the idea that TPMS itself is going to be much (if any) of an additional privacy violation on top of the already existing mass surveilling ALPR & FLOCK cameras that are damn near ubiquitous in a lot of regions is a bit laughable, but it's the feature creep and the impending slope that I tend to see as an issue.

Here's the text:

Thanks for this, and thanks for providing the article text. Articles sometimes change or disappear over time.

And I hope we’re all good now that we know each other a little better. 🫡

 

[BlackFlagBop]

Thanks for this, and thanks for providing the article text. Articles sometimes change or disappear over time.

And I hope we’re all good now that we know each other a little better. 🫡

I'm probably taking a later delivery than most here, but maybe we'll pass each other on 90 someday lol

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm probably taking a later delivery than most here, but maybe we'll pass each other on 90 someday lol

That or a meetup!

 

[DinoLord]

Ahh, there's the thing. I don't run modern low profile tires. I use regular tires, 15" and 17" on the Dodge 1 ton

Congrats, I guess?

 

[ClayJar]

I saw that short-form video that breezed through the dashboard menu system, and as I interpret it, the attached screenshot conclusively confirms that it has indirect TPMS.

Indirect TPMS, where the system monitors wheel speeds to detect tire issues by virtue of the fact a low tire has a different effective circumference, uses a baseline that you set by making sure everything is nominal and then telling the system "this is what counts as normal". Actual pressures are not known, so obviously, none can be displayed.

On the other hand, direct TPMS has pressure transducers transmitters for each wheel. As actual pressures are known, they would logically be displayed, at least in a tire pressure menu. Pairing, wheel assignment, etc. would also come into play.

I already figured it would be indirect TPMS, as that's just software using existing already-required hardware, but the menu makes me completely certain. While direct TPMS would tickle my brain's data-loving center, I'll admit that the convenience of indirect TPMS's simple baselining function makes the practical side of my brain sigh with relief -- tire rotations or swapping on a spare just take one simple reset to bring everything back to nominal.

 

[tubes]

I saw that short-form video that breezed through the dashboard menu system, and as I interpret it, the attached screenshot conclusively confirms that it has indirect TPMS.

Indirect TPMS, where the system monitors wheel speeds to detect tire issues by virtue of the fact a low tire has a different effective circumference, uses a baseline that you set by making sure everything is nominal and then telling the system "this is what counts as normal". Actual pressures are not known, so obviously, none can be displayed.

On the other hand, direct TPMS has pressure transducers transmitters for each wheel. As actual pressures are known, they would logically be displayed, at least in a tire pressure menu. Pairing, wheel assignment, etc. would also come into play.

I already figured it would be indirect TPMS, as that's just software using existing already-required hardware, but the menu makes me completely certain. While direct TPMS would tickle my brain's data-loving center, I'll admit that the convenience of indirect TPMS's simple baselining function makes the practical side of my brain sigh with relief -- tire rotations or swapping on a spare just take one simple reset to bring everything back to nominal.

Thanks for using the CSI zoom and enhance. I couldn't make that work. Good find.

 

[Luxrage]

I'll admit that the convenience of indirect TPMS's simple baselining function makes the practical side of my brain sigh with relief -- tire rotations or swapping on a spare just take one simple reset to bring everything back to nominal.

It'll also be nice for swapping in winter tires for the northern owners. One of the big gripes from the 2nd gen Honda Fit owners was swapping to their wheels that had the winter tires would freak out the always-active TPMS system and disable traction control.