From a design point of view, what limits the slate to 1000 pounds towing capacity

[Trace26]

The issue that I have with the 1000# towing limit is that most single axle utility trailers need 2000# capability. Many unibody vehicles can tow that, so why can't this? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be able to get a single scoop of mulch on a utility trailer.

They don't need 2000lbs capacity to pull a 2k trailer. You can get an aluminum 2k trailer that's about 300lbs. Then you would be limited to 700lbs on the trailer if you want to stay within the tow rating of the truck.
We have a 16k trailer we pull with a truck with a 10,000lbs tow rating. You just keep the trailer + load under the rating. If you want to, that is. We have towed upwards of 12,000lbs on several occasions.

 

[AZFox]

The issue that I have with the 1000# towing limit is that most single axle utility trailers need 2000# capability. Many unibody vehicles can tow that, so why can't this?

It's because the Truck is designed to be affordable, and doubling the towing capacity would add cost.

 

[danielt1263]

Fortunately for me, my trailer is only 600# (including the boat.)

But yea, maybe the confusion here is trailer capacity vs trailer weight. U-Haul's 4' x 7' utility trailer weighs 630# when empty...

 

[RedJoker]

Ok, maybe I shoul

It's because the Truck is designed to be affordable, and doubling the towing capacity would add cost.

I think that's the point of the original post. What would be the additional cost to increase the capacity? Are we talking $50 or $5000 to double the capacity?

 

[AZFox]

I think that's the point of the original post. What would be the additional cost to increase the capacity? Are we talking $50 or $5000 to double the capacity?

The original question is "When we talk about payload and towing, what is the limiting factor?" and suggests that it could be axles, battery, motor, etc...

The limiting factor is cost.
Or maybe cost is a meta-factor, if you will.
@atreis eloquently worded it this way:

It's a choice, and then Engineering around that choice, so likely not any single component at this point that limits [towing capacity] to 1K lbs.

So a follow-on question would be

How much more would it cost and what changes to the design would be required for the Truck to have heavier payload and towing capacities?​

 

[KevinRS]

It is probably going to be a combo of things. As is, it may well be possible, and some people will tow 2k lb trailers, but that will be outside the safety margin, could result in criminal liability if something goes wrong, and even if it doesn't, could damage the truck.
To do it right, you might need to change out the axle, suspension, and reinforce the frame/body, and upgrade the brakes, and even then, you might have problems with lack of power, and be unable to climb a hill, or unable to get up to full speed, or have battery life terribly short or system shut down due to overheating. No one's going to know what is possible or what to upgrade until people have the trucks, and some of the components on the prototypes we've seen pictures of aren't going to be the same as the final product.

 

[SlatePossible2028]

Looks to be a couple things.

My guess would be a mix of range extension, electrical system capabilities vs towing and cooling, and from what ive seen, lack of a proper frame to hitch with. Seems to be a bumper hitch.

Price point and type of body doesnt determine towing. Ability to stop, steer, shift (or in this case just move) and move are generally what does. Once you get away from those things, vehicle weight is usually the limiting factor.

I will say the towing on this is ridiculously low. I used to have a '13 Focus SE and that was rated at 1000 towing. Im guessing the slate's towing is more of a butt covering measure than anything.

 

[AZFox]

from what ive seen, lack of a proper frame to hitch with. Seems to be a bumper hitch.

The slateboard includes a proper frame that runs the length of the vehicle.

Also, somewhere I got the idea that there would a Class 2 receiver accessory.

Edit:
Source: Eric Keipper in the Rich Rebuilds video "It's a truck. It's meant to be a truck, so we have a proper frame that runs the length of the vehicle."

 

[ScooterAsheville]

The Slate is cheap and minimalist. Towing is not cheap and minimalist. Towing, like up the Ike Gauntlet on TFL, puts serious cooling, power, braking, and stability demands on a vehicle. Which means additional engineering, additional testing, and additional cost.

The Slate can't do serious towing not because of any one specific design choice that you can fix aftermarket. It can't do serious towing because it wasn't engineered as a system for serious towing. Every component on the truck was chosen for low cost, light duty. It's a system thing.

The unibody Maverick with a tow package can do 4,000. The Santa Cruz can do 5,000. They can do that because they were designed from the start with that duty cycle in mind. And you pay for that capability. And frankly, as somebody who doesn't tow with his Maverick, the 90% or more of buyers who never tow anything pay a cost and efficiency penalty for that towing design target.

 

[SlatePossible2028]

The slateboard includes a proper frame that runs the length of the vehicle.

Also, somewhere I got the idea that there would a Class 2 receiver accessory.

Edit:
Source: Eric Keipper in the Rich Rebuilds video "It's a truck. It's meant to be a truck, so we have a proper frame that runs the length of the vehicle."

My F150 has a proper frame as well, but it also had a bumper hitch mount that was 1500 rated iirc. Maverick is unibody, no real frame, 2000-4000lb towing.

Even it has a sort of frame or partial frame, its gunna base on how the hitch mounts up to it. And my guess looking at the slate is thats not a thing yet. So bumper style hitch it is

 

[AZFox]

And my guess looking at the slate is thats not a thing yet.

My guess is that a hitch receiver that mounts to the frame will come through a port in the bumper below the license plate notch.

So bumper style hitch it is

On this bumper? How would that work?

 

[SlatePossible2028]

My guess is that a hitch receiver that mounts to the frame will come through a port in the bumper below the license plate notch.



On this bumper? How would that work?

Could see it either being right in front of the plate recess or possibly underneath. Alternatively I see 2 square ports there, behind that is rhe metal core for the bumper so there could possibly be some sort of oddball factory hitch for the rear bumper that mounts to those 2 spots with the hitch in rhe middle. Who knows.

1000lbs just doesnt make sense in any real way and seems like its more indicative of either a bumper hitch or engineers just covering themselves. Thats less than various crossovers, compacts and vehicles like the maverick that have similar price points, or less or slightly more.

 

[AZFox]

One of the squares is used for the latch of the Spare Carrier, so I doubt it would be used for a hitch also because that would preclude having both a hitch and a Spare Carrier.

 

[AZFox]

The Slate is cheap and minimalist. Towing is not cheap and minimalist. Towing, like up the Ike Gauntlet on TFL, puts serious cooling, power, braking, and stability demands on a vehicle. Which means additional engineering, additional testing, and additional cost.

The Slate can't do serious towing not because of any one specific design choice that you can fix aftermarket. It can't do serious towing because it wasn't engineered as a system for serious towing. Every component on the truck was chosen for low cost, light duty. It's a system thing.

I agree in principle.

Where our opinions differ is around "Every component" because that would include the slateboard.

The slateboard is a platform for a portfolio of vehicles, some of which may be heavier-duty than the first vehicle (the cheap-and-minimalist Truck).

Just like AWD can be added in a future offering, it may be possible to add heavier-duty components to the slateboard that increase the towing and hauling capacities of a future offering.

 

[rmay635703]

It is probably going to be a combo of things. As is, it may well be possible, and some people will tow 2k lb trailers, but that will be outside the safety margin, could result in criminal liability if something goes wrong, and even if it doesn't, could damage the truck.
To do it right, you might need to change out the axle, suspension, and reinforce the frame/body, and upgrade the brakes, and even then, you might have problems with lack of power, and be unable to climb a hill, or unable to get up to full speed, or have battery life terribly short or system shut down due to overheating. No one's going to know what is possible or what to upgrade until people have the trucks, and some of the components on the prototypes we've seen pictures of aren't going to be the same as the final product.

Any properly designed EV needs to be capable of running wide open continuously with safe automatic down-rating if any component get close to thermal or power limits.

ALL reliable EVs on the road run this way as there is no other option as any EV as it ages depending on it’s environment and terreign will bump against these limits in normal use.

If the user can exceed any of the limits it’s guaranteed they will have lots of warranty issues even under normal in spec use, it isn’t the 1980’s anymore, all components need to be fully monitored because of risk of damage due to any intermittent use or a leak.

The slate looks to be extremely simple to beef up with minimal affect on the weight due to the drivetrain being on the rear axle, most all of the load would only need to be transferred through a couple feet of frame to get to the motor and rear axle/suspension region, no need to go to the front because of the motor layout and the lever arm affects.



All my trailers (even light ones) have brakes and load distribution available so brakes should be a non-issue.