Are HVAC knobs electronic

[FlyHappy]

Got it. You are assuming

1) The battery will need replacement.
2) Batteries will remain expensive in the future.

I don't expect either of those will be very likely.

I assume neither.
I was responding to your own suggestion that batteries might be replaced in the future. The fact that you meant for improvement is immaterial.
But it's also a fact of chemistry and physics that today's battery tech does degrade regardless of use and cycles.

With respect to cost, of course they'll be cheaper. But you'll note that I made the comparison to ICE / transmissions. Most folks who refresh an old ICE drivetrain are doing so with a relatively low cost " scrap yard pull" or maybe rebuild. Even then, it's not exceedingly common.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[hi-im-jeff]

I think you read something into what I wrote that wasn't there.

New vehicles face longevity challenges because they're more complex compared to vehicles of the past.

Add economic strategies of automakers (e.g. subscriptions, planned obsolescence) to that and things do not bode well for most new cars lasting two decades or more.

A 2001 Lexus is repairable at the local auto repair shop. I don't expect a 2026 Lexus to be nearly as repairable in 2051.

Preferences have shifted toward mOaR fEaTuReZ and away from built-to-last as an the predominant indicator of quality. (Not for me! Just saying.)

The Slate FN's simplicity improves its chances being repairable long into the future.

From what I understand, your argument is that, if something is more complex, then it is less reliable. While that's true a lot of the time, it doesn't always hold.

From an automotive context, for instance, the Bosch 009 distributor is a lot simpler than a modern COP ignition system, but you'd have a hard time saying the distributor is more reliable than the modern system. Also taking a systems perspective, the highly accurate timing of the modern solid state system allows much greater control of ignition timing, which makes all the other parts last longer as well.

 

[petefromwisconsin]

Oh yeah, you can definitely see it in this pic, those are physical indicators

I thought I read that all the cabin heat controls were simple mechanical things. Even if true, I could imagine that the fan speed is infinitely variable by making the knob on the left a 0-5k or 0-10k pot with that voltage signal controlling the duty cycle of a single power Mosfet to moderate the fan motor speed. If it was me, I would take the precaution of having the first 10% of the range equating to off and the remaining 90% going from 10% power to 100% power on the heater fan.
Now that we have them, a single power Mosfet might even be simpler than in the old days when there were multiple leads on the motor and the heater switch (rotary type) picked which ones to apply power to. Also, it might be a trick to now find an affordable 12 volt fan with multiple field taps.

 

[AZFox]

I assume neither.
I was responding to your own suggestion that batteries might be replaced in the future.

That's sorta my point. The part about batteries was a throw-in. It was aside from the main point of the post:

25 years ago high-quality meant built-to-last.

Now 40% of the cost of an average new car is electronics. (Yikes.)

Most MY2026 and MY2027 cars, EV and ICEV alike, stand little chance of lasting to last 25 years, IMHO.

Who knows, the Slate FN could be an exception to that.

My point was, and remains, that the Slate FN bucks the trend of cars as Computers With Wheels that are bound to fail. To the contrary, it's deliberately made to be simple and repairable, even by the owner.

It's likely to survive longer than other new cars will.

So we don't necessarily disagree, you're just focusing on something aside from the main point I was trying to get across.

 

[AZFox]

From what I understand, your argument is that, if something is more complex, then it is less reliable. While that's true a lot of the time, it doesn't always hold.

The exception doesn't disprove the rule. Newer distributor technology is more reliable because it's designed to be more reliable.

ICEVs are more complex machines compared to EVs.

ICEVs also need roadside breakdown assistance more than twice as frequently as the EVs.

Coincidence?... I think not.

 

[hi-im-jeff]

Ok, so I'm not going to be pedantic and explain the difference between a solid state ignition system and a distributor, but suffice it to say modern systems are more reliable BECAUSE of their complexity.

This is not the only example of this either,where we add complexity with the goal of increasing reliability. We add o2 sensors and knock sensors to ICE cars to make sure timing and fuel mixing are done correctly, these are very complex systems, and the do sometimes fail, but we add them because a failed knock sensor is an annoyance, your piston explosively leaving the engine through the oil sump, pretty much turning your entire engine into scrap.

 

[Daemoch]

I'm guessing digital. The vertical indicator looks like its located more as a center reference point than a current setting position. Ive got this kind of knob on a few cars; it bounces back to center when you let go and its usually only the outer ring that rotates; the inner 'button top' is either stationary or another push-type button on its own.

In simplest use, its a rotating 3 pole:
-/neutral/+
In fancier designs its progressive based on how far you turn it:
--- to - / neutral / + to +++

In my 7 series BMW its also an 8 point joystick. They can pack a lot into a knob if they want to!

 

[Moe]

That’s the great thing about the internet. If you ask a question you may be presented with every possible opinion and answer, including the one you wanted to hear.

 

[AZFox]

Ok, so I'm not going to be pedantic and explain the difference between a solid state ignition system and a distributor, but suffice it to say modern systems are more reliable BECAUSE of their complexity.

This is not the only example of this either,where we add complexity with the goal of increasing reliability. We add o2 sensors and knock sensors to ICE cars to make sure timing and fuel mixing are done correctly, these are very complex systems, and the do sometimes fail, but we add them because a failed knock sensor is an annoyance, your piston explosively leaving the engine through the oil sump, pretty much turning your entire engine into scrap.

You're missing my point entirely.

I'm comparing a simple vehicle that has many of the same things as other vehicles have, to other vehicles have a lot of Extra Things That Could Go Wrong.

Slate's design "removes things that aren't a car" and emphasizes ease of repair.

The difference between a solid state ignition system and a distributor has nothing to do with that. Ditto for O2 sensors and knock sensors.

Fortunately vehicle recalls are way down.... Oh, wait...

Vehicle Complexity has increased and things are going wrong more frequently as a result, plain and simple.

The Slate FN is comparatively very simple and, in principle, will be more likely to provide long service life than more complex vehicles that are chock-full of "things that aren't a car", as Chris Barman puts it when she describes what has been deliberately left out of the design.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[AZFox]

I'm guessing digital. The vertical indicator looks like its located more as a center reference point than a current setting position. Ive got this kind of knob on a few cars; it bounces back to center when you let go and its usually only the outer ring that rotates; the inner 'button top' is either stationary or another push-type button on its own.

I don't think they bounce back to center. These certainly didn't.

 

[Daemoch]

I don't think they bounce back to center. These certainly didn't.

I kinda hope they are just knob-knobs and nothing complex. Less to go wrong and easier and cheaper to replace.

BTW, whats the "FN" stand for in "Slate FN"? I saw it when you mentioned a VIN in another thread too and wondered.

 

[007]

I wonder how the switches work. Specifically, there seem to be indictor LEDs on them.

In my wild imagination I would think if I want the AC compressor to run the fan switch would need to be in any position except off. And I would push the center of the dial and the LED would light light up indicating AC the compressor is running. The center button, if it is one, could be a momentary switch that must be pushed again when the truck boots up or a switch that stays pushed.

The temp switch has a heat LED. With the LED off there is no heat generated. Just like an ICE car you don't need one or both engaged.

The knob on the right looks like you push it to engage recirc. Max AC should automaticity engage recirc like it does on my 55 year old Ford. Defog may turn it off. Some cars shut off recirc when defog is on. On modern cars recirc is a choice for several modes. Or maybe the LED lights on max AC only.

 

[AZFox]

BTW, whats the "FN" stand for in "Slate FN"? I saw it when you mentioned a VIN in another thread too and wondered.

FN is the model name of the vehicle.

It stands for eFfing Nuts, believe it or not. Freaking or some other F-word...

I think it started out as the project name when it was a project at Re:Build.

 

[Moe]

I wonder how the switches work. Specifically, there seem to be indictor LEDs on them.

In my wild imagination I would think if I want the AC compressor to run the fan switch would need to be in any position except off. And I would push the center of the dial and the LED would light light up indicating AC the compressor is running. The center button, if it is one, could be a momentary switch that must be pushed again when the truck boots up or a switch that stays pushed.

The temp switch has a heat LED. With the LED off there is no heat generated. Just like an ICE car you don't need one or both engaged.

The knob on the right looks like you push it to engage recirc. Max AC should automaticity engage recirc like it does on my 55 year old Ford. Defog may turn it off. Some cars shut off recirc when defog is on. On modern cars recirc is a choice for several modes. Or maybe the LED lights on max AC only.

This is how I understand it to work. From what I’ve heard, the FN heating is a glycol hydronic PTC system that also provides battery heat. In this case the center knob rotation may control flow through a cab heater core.

In addition to shutting off air recirculation, Defrost usually also engages the air conditioner compressor to dry the air.
.

 

[StromSpeed]

I guess I read into this too deeply. I remember the time when the air distribution selector was full on mechanical and that slide selector actually pulled a cable to engage the distribution flaps under the dash. Sometimes it was hard to select. And sometimes it wouldn’t stay put when driving and you had to keep correcting it.
So yes expecting these knobs are fully electronic that are articulating a servo to make those distribution and temp selections. Cost and reliability should be there now without added cost.
Its pure gravy if they are remotely controlled but highly doubtful as that = expense.