Worst-case Scenario Range Estimates for each battery type (my calculations)

[AZFox]

Terrain is far worse for ICEVs than EVs. At least with EVs on negative grades, you don't have to worry about brake fade. Plus it recharges your car. MPG tanks on ICEVs going uphill too. Plus you have automatics hunting for gears at awkward RPM ranges. "ICEV manufacturers do not want such data on the window sticker"

Advantage EV thanks to regenerative braking. I hadn't considered that.

As a bicycle rider I'm keenly aware that if the beginning and end of a ride are the same location every foot of elevation gain has a matching foot of elevation loss.

 

[KevinRS]

Every car I've owned since the Morony sticker came into existence has easily beat the EPA MPG ratings. I keep strict fuel records, its not conjecture nor estimation. I literally have about 800,000 miles of data. Lol at your attempt to try and equalize ICEV inefficiencies under cold weather conditions of EV. That is just humorous. Really.

Well congratulations. You probably drive more efficiently than most(lighter foot), or on routes that happen to beat the averaged estimate.
I actually beat my window sticker by quite a bit in one particular week, when I was commuting farther than normal, and most of the extra amount was a straight fast flat freeway. I've generally been at or better than the window sticker, but it varies from week to week, most of the time I'm on surface streets, but suburban/rural. Just hitting extra red lights makes a significant difference in travel time and MPG.

 

[Dorbiman]

Every car I've owned since the Morony sticker came into existence has easily beat the EPA MPG ratings. I keep strict fuel records, its not conjecture nor estimation. I literally have about 800,000 miles of data. Lol at your attempt to try and equalize ICEV inefficiencies under cold weather conditions of EV. That is just humorous. Really.

I'm unsure how any of what you said matters, but I'm happy for you! Next time that you want to have a discussion, feel free to respond to what I said, instead of stroking your ego

 

[E90400K]

I'm unsure how any of what you said matters, but I'm happy for you! Next time that you want to have a discussion, feel free to respond to what I said, instead of stroking your ego

Like what, embarrass you by pointing out there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine?

 

[E90400K]

Advantage EV thanks to regenerative braking. I hadn't considered that.

As a bicycle rider I'm keenly aware that if the beginning and end of a ride are the same location every foot of elevation gain has a matching foot of elevation loss.

Okay, but like ICEV you don't regain energy coasting downhill, you just don't lose more energy. EV only regain some energy, not all of it, less than 25%. Considering EV lose between 15% to 35% efficiency in cold weather operation (depending on manufacturer and model), whereas ICEV lose just a few percent (if that)... hummm.

 

[E90400K]

Well congratulations. You probably drive more efficiently than most(lighter foot), or on routes that happen to beat the averaged estimate.
I actually beat my window sticker by quite a bit in one particular week, when I was commuting farther than normal, and most of the extra amount was a straight fast flat freeway. I've generally been at or better than the window sticker, but it varies from week to week, most of the time I'm on surface streets, but suburban/rural. Just hitting extra red lights makes a significant difference in travel time and MPG.

Nope on the "light foot", quite the opposite really (my license just cleared its last points about 2 years ago - LOL). I live in the mountains and drive BMWs on purpose; I moved here in part for the roads. Just a mile from the house is a 11-turn corkscrew that drops 800 feet in just a mile of roadway. Where I live, it's elevation changes out the ass and the straightest road section is probably a 1/4 mile at best. All follow canyons or rivers; ancient Indian trails...

 

[AZFox]

EV only regain some energy, not all of it, less than 25%.

Less than 25% of what?

Electric vehicles (EVs) typically recover about 60 to 70% of the kinetic energy during braking through regenerative braking. On average, this can translate to around 22% of the total driving energy being recaptured, with some models achieving higher efficiencies in specific conditions.​

Regenerative is a big benefit for the Truck in particular because it's particularly well-suited for, if not specifically designed for, local-use runabout purposes rather than as a Highway Cruiser.

 

[Daemoch]

All this back-and-forth and you guys haven't even TOUCHED on how pack balancing algorithms work.

EV "Capacity" is a function of the algorithm vs the actual physical capabilities of the circuit. I can reserve 40% of a circuit and rotate portions in and out of that 'resting' pool and milk out even more range. Or use it to manage thermals. Or max speed. Or system longevity. Everyone is getting all caught up on basic physics of ICEV and forgetting that there's a whole world of logic that can be leveraged to maximize range for an EV in a specific use case.

Commonly accepted "Range" is HIGHLY subjective.

Ever wonder if the EPA range (MPG) on your ICEV is with a full tank or an empty one? That's a few hundred pounds you may or may not be carting around depending. And that becomes a dynamic load on the handling, too. If you want to know what your ICE canyon carver or dragster can really do, put the minimal amount needed in the tank and test it. On serious dragsters we measure out ounces/cups for a run; its that big a deal. Ever wonder why straight axel High-boy cars put the tank on the front?

This stuff isn't new, its just the first time maybe you've had to think and logically process it yourselves rather than just accept what's presented to you as universal standard/fact.

 

[GaRailroader]

Every car I've owned since the Morony sticker came into existence has easily beat the EPA MPG ratings. I keep strict fuel records, its not conjecture nor estimation. I literally have about 800,000 miles of data. Lol at your attempt to try and equalize ICEV inefficiencies under cold weather conditions of EV. That is just humorous. Really.

Since the rating is a combination of city and highway driving, I would think most people that are biased towards highway driving are likely to beat that number and the people that are biased towards city driving are not going to beat it. I did have a Kia Sorento that was involved in the Hyundai/Kia class action lawsuit where they had overstated their numbers. Periodically, I could take the Kia by a Kia dealer and they would verify my odometer and provided a prepaid debit card to compensate for how they lied about their efficiency.

 

[GaRailroader]

The Monroney sticker on an EV doesn't really make sense. I looked at my Nissan Leaf and it says it 99 MPGe Highway and 123 MPGe City or 111 MPGe combined. Does a consumer know what that means? What is important to me is how many miles I can go on a kWh. In smaller print it reads 30 kWh per 100 miles. This equates to 3.333 miles per kWh. I have measured every kWh that has been put into the battery, at the outlet not at the battery, since I bought the car and I have averaged 3.81 miles/kWh. Is that better than 111 MPGe? Who knows. It is certainly better than 30 kWh per 100 miles. Total electricity spend in 32k miles is $61.13 though admittedly I charge for free at work whenever I can. I am in Georgia not Canada so don't have the extreme cold temps that some have.

Edit: According to the formula in Gemini, my 3.81 miles/kWh equates to 128.3 MPGe. Not too shabby.

 

[cadblu]

The Monroney sticker on an EV doesn't really make sense. I looked at my Nissan Leaf and it says it 99 MPGe Highway and 123 MPGe City or 111 MPGe combined. Does a consumer know what that means? What is important to me is how many miles I can go on a kWh. In smaller print it reads 30 kWh per 100 miles. This equates to 3.333 miles per kWh. I have measured every kWh that has been put into the battery, at the outlet not at the battery, since I bought the car and I have averaged 3.81 miles/kWh. Is that better than 111 MPGe? Who knows. It is certainly better than 30 kWh per 100 miles. Total electricity spend in 32k miles is $61.13 though admittedly I charge for free at work whenever I can. I am in Georgia not Canada so don't have the extreme cold temps that some have.

Edit: According to the formula in Gemini, my 3.81 miles/kWh equates to 128.3 MPGe. Not too shabby.

Tesla has a very elaborate, if not industry leading, energy app built into its onboard computer. An engineering background is helpful in interpreting the data. But to summarize, drive in a responsible manner, avoiding high performance maneuvers, etc. and I can achieve about 240 watts consumed per mile. Which is equivalent to 4.16 miles per kWh. I recently performed such a test run. Yes, it means driving like grandma going to church. Not happening.

 

[AZFox]

Since the rating is a combination of city and highway driving, I would think most people that are biased towards highway driving are likely to beat that number and the people that are biased towards city driving are not going to beat it.

It's the other way around.

The Monroney sticker on an EV doesn't really make sense. I looked at my Nissan Leaf and it says it 99 MPGe Highway and 123 MPGe City or 111 MPGe combined. Does a consumer know what that means?

Bingo.

I think the reasons are a combination of extra Aerodynamic Drag (especially for the Slate Truck) on the freeway and Regenerative Braking that happens with city driving.

 

[Daemoch]

It's the other way around.

I think hes talking ICEV MPG ratings. If I drive highway I pick up a substantial MPG rate generally (about +20%) on ICEVs.

 

[AZFox]

I think hes talking ICEV MPG ratings. If I drive highway I pick up a substantial MPG rate generally (about +20%) on ICEVs.

Oh, maybe so.

My 90's Mustang went 50% (or more) farther per gallon on the freeway. The first time I took a Road Trip I was pleasantly surprised when I stopped for gas.

The upshot is that ICEVs achieve their best efficiency on highways and EVs, with their regenerative braking, perform more efficiently in city driving.

 

[E90400K]

EV do better in urban traffic environments because EV consume very little energy at idle (i.e. not moving) so there is much less heat loss as compared to ICEV.