Blind Spot Warning

[AZFox]

I wonder if the clever and thoughtful Slate engineers and designers thought of including provisions for adding a Passenger Mirror Joystick accessory.

I don't need it, but my vehicles have the same driver 99.44% of the time.

 

[Driven5]

Also, without heated mirrors, you can at least scrape the frost off power mirrors without them changing positions and needing to be readjusted with the window down every morning it's cold and/or snows. Not so easily with manual mirrors that are designed to move when pressed upon.

 

[KevinRS]

BSW is not meant to replace checking your mirrors and blind spot. But without it, something I have had happen is I signal, check, and start changing lanes, only to have someone move into the space I was moving into from the far lane, basically in the blind spot the whole way. You can't keep looking over your shoulder the whole time you are changing lanes.

 

[ThatADASguy]

The BSW ADAS system isn’t just about, is someone in my blindspot while driving. On most new vehicles it’s also used for rear cross traffic alert, so if ur backing out of a spot, & a object is coming that u can’t see, but the radar can, u don’t end up hitting them or a person walking.
If Slate does end up having an ADAS suite that includes BSW, I’d be interested in how they would integrate it.
Most OEMs put the BSW indicator in the mirrors. But some, such as Odyssey models, have it on the interior.
My favorite BSW systems are GM that even when stopped, light up. And Hyundai/ Kia that light up depending upon how fast the vehicle is approaching.

 

[Letas]

I recently asked, got answered, and subsequently provided feedback of my displeasure from the perspective of a multi-driver household, and can confirm that the mirrors are in fact externally adjustable only. Also that the only slated option to make this less inconvenient, not to mention messy in inclement weather, is power windows.

Having been there, done that, got the t-shirt with crank windows with external mirror adjustment, I think this is a miss on Slate's part.

Thankfully it shouldn't take much time for the aftermarket to solve this shortcoming, although it also certainly won't be as affordable as it could have been from the factory.

Sheesh, I'm not a BSW advocate by any means. My daily doesn't have it, but probably 2-4 times a month I drive a vehicle that does, and it's nice. I would appreciate it in the Slate, but don't need it.

That being said, it kind of puts a poo-poo in the rhetoric of this thread "properly adjusted mirrors eliminate blind spots". While I don't buy into that notion, unless you have a convex side mirror or a mirror that's 3 ft wide, adjustability in mirrors is critical. My driving position changes significantly after an hour or so of driving, to the point that I adjust my mirrors mid-drive. Now we've lost that capability, don't have BSW.... sometimes tech advancements are good, and Slate seems to be skipping out here.

 

[Driven5]

That being said, it kind of puts a poo-poo in the rhetoric of this thread "properly adjusted mirrors eliminate blind spots". While I don't buy into that notion, unless you have a convex side mirror or a mirror that's 3 ft wide...

Many people choose not to learn enough about many demonstrably true things to buy into them. That does not make them any less true. Incidentally, it was developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (typically called the 'SAE method') and even the NHTSA does 'buy into' it...
As found on the NHTSA website...

They describe the setting method differently than I did, but the result is the same when done correctly. For those not used to it, it is a little disorienting at first. But once you get used to it, there's no going back.

 

[Letas]

Many people choose not to learn enough about many demonstrably true things to buy into them. That does not make them any less true. Incidentally, it was developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (typically called the 'SAE method') and even the NHTSA does 'buy into' it...
As found on the NHTSA website...

They describe the setting method differently than I did, but the result is the same when done correctly. For those not used to it, it is a little disorienting at first. But once you get used to it, there's no going back.

This is a fine method, and a strange hill to die on. It is entirely dependent on the availability of an unobstructed rear-view mirror inside the cab. Which is not a guarantee by any means. BSW helps cover the gaps where a rear-view mirror is unavailable and a blind spot exists, even in the SAE method.

 

[Letas]

Many people choose not to learn enough about many demonstrably true things to buy into them. That does not make them any less true. Incidentally, it was developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (typically called the 'SAE method') and even the NHTSA does 'buy into' it...
As found on the NHTSA website...

They describe the setting method differently than I did, but the result is the same when done correctly. For those not used to it, it is a little disorienting at first. But once you get used to it, there's no going back.

To add to the fun- this method is, by law, not legal in many states. For example, WA states
" (1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with a mirror mounted on the left side of the vehicle and so located to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of such vehicle. "

This method would be in violation of that- as the drivers side mirror can not see the highway 200 ft behind the vehicle- the visibility is directed towards the side/rear.

You don't have to be a BSW advocate, but it is just silly to deny it's benefits.

 

[KevinRS]

No matter how you adjust any kind of standard mirrors, there are still going to be blind spots. A standard side mirror just doesn't show a wide enough view to show a car coming into the lane you were also going to go into, when that car is coming in from just behind the driver's position.

You are in #3 lane, preparing to move to #2 lane, you check and there is plenty of space, and as you start moving over, a car in the #1 lane with it's front bumper 6 feet behind your front bumper moves into that same space. You aren't going to make the whole lane change with your head turned sideways, and the next thing you know they are blasting their horn at you, or you do glance that way again mid lane change and have to abort and go back to where you started.

 

[Driven5]

To add to the fun- this method is, by law, not legal in many states. For example, WA states
" (1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with a mirror mounted on the left side of the vehicle and so located to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of such vehicle. "

This method would be in violation of that- as the drivers side mirror can not see the highway 200 ft behind the vehicle- the visibility is directed towards the side/rear.

You don't have to be a BSW advocate, but it is just silly to deny it's benefits.

Fully compliant as written, and not in any violation. The mirrors are located with that ability, you just have to move your head slightly to utilize it. And honestly, I'll trust SAE and NHTSA over a bunch of politicians for determining the safest and most effective way to have mirrors adjusted.

I'm not denying BSW has certain benefits, but it's equally silly to promote benefits that are actually redundant.

 

[AL-Derby]

I totally get why you think mirrors should be properly adjusted! But I actually find the BSW feature to be a great safety boost that makes me feel more secure. I’m not as young as I used to be, and twisting and turning to check the blind spot has shown I have less neck mobility than I once did. I managed just fine without it, but the last two cars I’ve owned have had it, and it’s shown me how useful and safe it can be.

Don’t add to the vehicle cost for everyone. If you want it that’s what Slate is about, They build it and you make it yours by adding the items YOU want. Not what you want everyone else to have.

 

[Letas]

Fully compliant as written, and not in any violation. The mirrors are located with that ability, you just have to move your head slightly to utilize it. And honestly, I'll trust SAE and NHTSA over a bunch of politicians for determining the safest and most effective way to have mirrors adjusted.

I'm not denying BSW has certain benefits, but it's equally silly to promote benefits that are actually redundant.

If it is so redundant and unnecessary in your view- why does every single auto insurer offer discounted rates for a vehicle with BSW compared to without? Surely you know something their actuaries and models don’t?

 

[Driven5]

You are in #3 lane, preparing to move to #2 lane, you check and there is plenty of space, and as you start moving over, a car in the #1 lane with it's front bumper 6 feet behind your front bumper moves into that same space. You aren't going to make the whole lane change with your head turned sideways, and the next thing you know they are blasting their horn at you, or you do glance that way again mid lane change and have to abort and go back to where you started.

You're overstating this. If you're both merging into the same lane at the same time, the futher back vehicle is responsible for not hitting the further forward vehicle. If they fail at this, they are at fault for the collision. If they had time to fully establish themselves in the lane, you took WAY too long between checing your mirrors and making your move and/or you're not using your peripheral vision at all. You shouldn't have to be staring at and focused on a mirror to see movement in it... Especially when moving that direction.

Yes there are technically blind spots, but none of them are large enough for any road vehcile (including motorcycles) to hide in them... So they are effectively eliminated, for all intents and purposes.

 

[KevinRS]

The blind spot is outside the range of the mirror, they start too far to the left, where the small blind spot gets larger with distance. So it's time between turning your head to look fully out the side window and completing the lane change. If you signal and start moving and they dart in without signaling, then claim they were already in the lane, it's your word against theirs unless you set up a tesla like recording system.
Sure you may be able to detect the problem mid change and avoid a collision, but BSW makes that closer to a sure thing.

 

[Driven5]

Insurance discounts for BSW support what I'm saying, not conflict with it. The SAE method was developed as a blindspot safety improvement, covering most (admittedly, not all) of the same function as BSW before the technology for BSW existed. But people are naturally resistant to change, so a technical solution will drive widespread adoption in a way that a behavioral solution can't. I've already stated that the vast majority of people either don't know to, or simply choose not to, use the SAE method... Which is why the actuaries and models see BSW as effective as it is.

I'm NOT saying BSW doesn't also prevent some collisions even with SAE method mirror adjustment, but far fewer. Just as BSW prevents far fewer collisions for those that can only see the door handles in the side mirrors than it does those that their own car occupies half their mirror.

In all my years (decades) of driving over hundreds of thousands of highway driving miles with the SAE method, most of which have been in major metro areas, the only close calls BSW would have potentially helped were due entirely to lapses in my own attentiveness, and not residual 'blind' spots.

The problem is that when credible evidence challenges existing perceptions, most people also tend to inherently seek to defend their current perception against it rather than seek to understand how it could evolve their perception.