So many posts about, will you still buy without EV credit [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[OldGoat]

Beginning to wonder if E90400K is a troll for the oil companies. He makes no sense. The whole process of mining, transporting, refining, storing, re-transporting oil is crazy. Renewable energy, batteries and EV’s are admittedly in the pupae stage. But so was my cumbersome bag phone in the early 80’s and now they are powerful tools. I don’t want anyone new to EV’s to believe that you can’t count on wind or solar to be a major source of juice . Government should not kill initiatives to advance any/all EV and renewable energy companies based here.

 

[cvollers]

Modern cars are complicated because of FEDERAL emissions standards and safety regulations/standards. We all voted for the people who created the pathway for such regs to exist.

Stop crying about it. Lol.

If people actually learned how to drive before getting a license (to kill), maybe we would have fewer safety regulations and cars would be simpler.

 

[Luxrage]

Where else can you get a featureless 2-door truck EV for $30k new?

One of the big counter arguments I see on youtube and other places is "This is nowhere near as cheap as the Chinese EVs they are selling for ten thousand!"

Ok... where are they?

I get that they're out there but OUR market doesn't get to have them! Even at $25k a Slate looks appealing against a $39k Kia Nero and a bit more appealing than a $32K Hyundai Kona, especially if you're looking for a pickup bed.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Beginning to wonder if E90400K is a troll for the oil companies. He makes no sense. The whole process of mining, transporting, refining, storing, re-transporting oil is crazy. Renewable energy, batteries and EV’s are admittedly in the pupae stage. But so was my cumbersome bag phone in the early 80’s and now they are powerful tools. I don’t want anyone new to EV’s to believe that you can’t count on wind or solar to be a major source of juice . Government should not kill initiatives to advance any/all EV and renewable energy companies based here.

Probably not a fossil fuel industry troll, but certainly unaware that it's possible to get beyond fossil fuels to the degree that he currently envisions. The argument presented was not so much the viability of oil vs. electricity to get from point A to point B, but the building of the electric-powered machines themselves (metal/plastic EVs, batteries, solar panels) without using fossil fuels in the process. In that respect, E90400K is correct: you still need it. My point is that it's presumptuous to assume that this will still be the case 100 years from now, much less 10 to 20 years from now.

Remember that the manufacturing of steel (auto frames and sheet metal parts) requires extreme heat, which has traditionally required the burning of coal. But there are processes far along in the development stage that will allow us to produce that intense heat without any coal at all. The challenges are how much more the end product will cost to make it clean and can it be produced at scale (ie: not just in small laboratory batches) . . .



Note that one of the processes described in the above video involves hydrogen. But then you have to do a deep dive into how that hydrogen was made. Do you extract it from methane via steam reformation (dirty) or via electrolysis from water (clean.)

The long argument with hydrogen is that many believed it was about to become a viable transportation fuel in its own right. After a couple of decades, though, most will correctly argue that it doesn't pencil out for that use case. But there are still industrial processes - like the manufacturing of steel - where it makes sense.

Conclusion #1: We've already invented viable electric cars. It's possible to get places without burning a drop of gasoline. The problem is that building those car still requires fossil fuels. The good news is that they don't require an endless supply of fossil fuels to keep running and, after as little as 2 years, those EVs will have paid back all the emissions it took to build them. The longer that EV is on the road, the cleaner it becomes.

Conclusion #2: What the current administration is doing with the elimination of clean energy subsidies and consumer tax break is bone-headed and vindictive. And, yes, it was bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industry. It will also give every other country who is developing their own clean tech a lead over us in world markets. The Chinese were already ahead and now we've given them a further lead, all while making millions of ordinary Americans just that much poorer. I hope voters will remember all of this over the course of the next couple of election cycles.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

The only difference is your 1980's cell phone tech advancement was driven by market forces (i.e. product competition) that created smaller and more efficient transistors and supporting electronic components for a wide array electronic devices, none of which was forced by government legislation.

Great! Glad you agree. The United States should not be "picking winners and losers" when it comes to things like this. So I'm sure you're as outraged as I am that the fossil fuel industry is extracting as much as 760 billion dollars annually from the American tax payer in direct and indirect subsidies . . .

https://www.fractracker.org/2025/03/fossil-fuel-subsidies-free-market-myth/

Now, of course, fixing this vast economic inequity would mean that the dino juice you use to run your not-so-smelly gadgets is going to cost you much more, even if if all came from domestic wells (it won't and never will, despite what Dear Leader tells you.) Of course that also means gasoline will go up to about $10 or $12 per gallon in the US and stay there until we finally run out of the stuff.

But I'm fine with that. I've already begun the process of removing fossil fuels from my life as much as I can. It's the ones who are currently doubling down who are going to be in a world of hurt when (not if) the current fossil fuel subsidy situation changes . . .

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Could you be more specific? I opened your USEIA PDF once to glance it quickly. There is a section in there on fossil fuel subsidies (yes, they're real,) but I didn't really read through it carefully. When I went back to take another look, the Slate Forums administrators wouldn't let me open it again. I guess they have security measures in place when it comes to accessing attachments like this within messages.

So, yes, what was the specific point you wanted to make about fossil fuel subsidies?

 

[Letas]

I think for me, killing the bill pushes me to consider other vehicles a bit more strongly.

1) obviously this gives ICE cars an edge on pricing. The credit helped level the field

but say Im only looking at EVs-

2) this brings the Slate closer in price to other “more speced” EVs. I anticipate my Slate will be ~$32500 msrp, given that I want bigger battery, SUV kit, etc. Maybe more, I’m optimistic.
Most other EVs I’d consider (equinox, MY, R2) are listed at 45k MSRP, give or take.

With the tax credit, the Slate is ~33% cheaper. Without the credit (equally applied to both), the Slate is closer to 25% cheaper. Starts to make me question if the creature comforts or lack thereof are worth the difference.

Just a different way to see the same question!

 

[cvollers]

I think for me, killing the bill pushes me to consider other vehicles a bit more strongly.

1) obviously this gives ICE cars an edge on pricing. The credit helped level the field

but say Im only looking at EVs-

2) this brings the Slate closer in price to other “more speced” EVs. I anticipate my Slate will be ~$32500 msrp, given that I want bigger battery, SUV kit, etc. Maybe more, I’m optimistic.
Most other EVs I’d consider (equinox, MY, R2) are listed at 45k MSRP, give or take.

With the tax credit, the Slate is ~33% cheaper. Without the credit (equally applied to both), the Slate is closer to 25% cheaper. Starts to make me question if the creature comforts or lack thereof are worth the difference.

Just a different way to see the same question!

I don’t need

I think for me, killing the bill pushes me to consider other vehicles a bit more strongly.

1) obviously this gives ICE cars an edge on pricing. The credit helped level the field

but say Im only looking at EVs-

2) this brings the Slate closer in price to other “more speced” EVs. I anticipate my Slate will be ~$32500 msrp, given that I want bigger battery, SUV kit, etc. Maybe more, I’m optimistic.
Most other EVs I’d consider (equinox, MY, R2) are listed at 45k MSRP, give or take.

With the tax credit, the Slate is ~33% cheaper. Without the credit (equally applied to both), the Slate is closer to 25% cheaper. Starts to make me question if the creature comforts or lack thereof are worth the difference.

Just a different way to see the same question!

At close to $35K, a lot of other vehicles start to make sense, including some pretty well-built and well-equipped hybrids.

 

[Letas]

I don’t need

At close to $35K, a lot of other vehicles start to make sense, including some pretty well-built and well-equipped hybrids.

Yep, and that's the question for me regardless of EV credit. Can I make my Slate comfortable enough for ~25k+ miles annually at a price that makes sense? I won't be able to tell until we get pricing.

That's the beauty of consumer choice I guess!

 

[cvollers]

Yep, and that's the question for me regardless of EV credit. Can I make my Slate comfortable enough for ~25k+ miles annually at a price that makes sense? I won't be able to tell until we get pricing.

That's the beauty of consumer choice I guess!

For me, I don’t really need a pickup. I do need a fuel efficient daily/commuter. And I may not be in a situation where home charging is an option.

 

[Letas]

For me, I don’t really need a pickup. I do need a fuel efficient daily/commuter. And I may not be in a situation where home charging is an option.

Same boat! Im grateful that my work has free EV charging, but that is not a guarantee ever. One of the draws for slate for me (and presumably everyone) is the price. I dont feel as bad taking a depreciation hit on a 25k car vs a 50k car, if it turns out not to be suitable.

I will say... the Rivian R2 is enticing, if they can deliver it as promised! (emphasis on the if)

 

[cvollers]

Same boat! Im grateful that my work has free EV charging, but that is not a guarantee ever. One of the draws for slate for me (and presumably everyone) is the price. I dont feel as bad taking a depreciation hit on a 25k car vs a 50k car, if it turns out not to be suitable.

I will say... the Rivian R2 is enticing, if they can deliver it as promised! (emphasis on the if)

I like the R2, and the R3. I’m on the road all day for my sales gig. I don’t mind stopping to charge but I do think I’ll need the overnight charging with a Slate.

 

[sodamo]

What am I missing? Comparables? I don’t see them. Marverick is not EV, other EV’s not a pickup. Already have a hybrid truck. Other EV pickups totally another budget. Telo? Even at $42k I don’t expect to see it available, especial in same timeframe. Even same price as Slate, it’s ugly.
Set my point at $35k. Most likely I have a $2500 trans cost most don’t. Would like the topper (no seat configuration), and possibly larger battery, but could possibly get without either, but again I don’t see a comparable choice.

 

[cvollers]

What am I missing? Comparables? I don’t see them. Marverick is not EV, other EV’s not a pickup. Already have a hybrid truck. Other EV pickups totally another budget. Cello? Even at $42k I don’t expect to see it available, especial in same timeframe. Even same price as Slate, it’s ugly.
Set my point at $35k. Most likely I have a $2500 trans cost most don’t. Would like the topper (no seat configuration), and possibly larger battery, but could possibly get without either, but again I don’t see a comparable choice.

I’m looking at a new Civic Sport Touring for $32K and 50 mpg. Not comparable to a Slate but it checks all my boxes for $30-35K.

 

[PACMAN]

The loss of the tax credit is a bummer for sure, but I still plan to buy the Slate. My Ford Maverick Hybrid is going to my son in a couple of years, and I have been planning on buying a two-door pickup like the old Tacomas for myself, except I really wanted an EV… when Slate came along, I got excited. Wish it had 4x4 and more range, but it’ll do just fine. I plan to get the extended range battery and factory lift, so I’ll probably be closer to 30k, but we’ll see…