The Autopian sits in a SLATE

[TPL]

Haha, sadly yes, I'm a PE in Power Systems Engineering. I work in utility-scale renewables and storage - currently buying about twice as many batteries per year as Slate will be... Demand is high.

What's your take on sodium ion batteries in your industry? From the outside it looks like they're going to revolutionize everything.

 

[IanNubbit]

The Hella headlamps are great but illegal at 80/100w for road use in the USA though. Not that that stopped me . The hazard for modern vehicles with electronic switching circuits is they are not rated for the higher currents. A standard 55w lamp draws about 4A each, a 100w lamp draws 7.4A each. With older vehicles, the switch may get warm, but with a solid state switch, you might let the magic smoke out.
Something else I have been thinking about with the Slate is what will the overall 12V power system be capable of supporting. After adding a decent stereo, uprated headlamps, offroad lights, ect. will the 12v system be overloaded? Is Slate going to be equipped with a accessory power interface, like what Jeep did? I have not seen anything other than a comment on the connectors being proprietary, which is not a good sign. I will probably put just a radio in mine, but I know a lot of people on this forum will want to add other power accessories as well.

They do have a accessory switch bank, with what looks like 6 switches so I suspect really high availability on the 12v rail since VERY little uses it in the Blank Slate

 

[IanNubbit]

For those of you near NYC, sounds like Slate will be the show this week. I used to love the NYC auto show. It's a monster. You can spend two hours and see almost every car sold in the USA.

Wait really?? I can’t find info they will be there

 

[IanNubbit]

Does the 12 volt battery only get charged by the big battery, or does it also get a trickle charge when the EV is plugged in? If you leave a radio or lights on when not plugged in, will that run down both the low and high voltage batteries over time? I have heard stories of Lucid cars that are difficult to open the doors if the 12 volt battery is dead.

The vehicle has a module that converts HV to 12V. That’s what charged the 12V battery and runs the accessories, just like an alternator. When plugged in, the power goes in, charges the HV battery, then the HV charges the 12V

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I have never understood the need for a 12v battery, why not just use a DC-DC converter to get the system 12v from the HV battery, unless it is required for safety in case the DC-DC converter fails the lights would still work. Redundant DC-DC converters would be better than having a 12v battery to maintain.

 

[IanNubbit]

I have never understood the need for a 12v battery, why not just use a DC-DC converter to get the system 12v from the HV battery, unless it is required for safety in case the DC-DC converter fails the lights would still work. Redundant DC-DC converters would be better than having a 12v battery to maintain.

You want the vehicle to be able to turn the HV contractors off and still have an operational car for diagnostics etc. not having a 12v battery would basically brick your car completely if the HV battery gets to low, or their is any isolation fault of any kind. Also there is no way to enale the contactors if they need to be disconnected. Basically the vehicle would have to hooked up to a 12V voltage supply other then the charger to re-enable the vehicle. Just a poor idea all around

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Not having owned a EV, that makes sense now. I had a Hyundai Ionic PIH, but it was bought back after the dealer couldn't fix what was wrong with the engine code faults.

 

[phidauex]

What's your take on sodium ion batteries in your industry? From the outside it looks like they're going to revolutionize everything.

My stance is "looks promising, watching products mature". In the US there is one company starting to do stationary energy storage with sodium ion. They don't have any commercially operating projects yet, but do have fully functional prototypes. It is pretty appealing - the very wide operating temperature range solves one of our biggest issues - HVAC. On large scale energy storage systems the battery is virtually maintenance free, our O&M teams are basically HVAC technicians, they spend most of their time changing filters, troubleshooting compressors, etc.

That said, sodium ion is still lower density, and that can really matter for stationary energy storage, because you are needing to buy land at a key strategic location on the grid, probably adjacent to a substation. That land can be very expensive, so lower density increases the land and other equipment cost quite a bit. At the moment it isn't competitive yet compared to NMC or LFP, but it is getting closer.

I think we'll see more of it over the next 5 years. One thing to remember is just how big manufacturing infrastructure is, and how slowly energy infrastructure moves. Imagine if someone invented a new kind of asphalt that is 20% better - it would still take decades for you to see it in your town. Energy doesn't move that slow, but generally speaking permitting timelines mean 4-5 years is about as quick as it is possible to see rapid scaling on a new technology, and that is AFTER it has been very well tested and validated.