Article: Slate Auto CEO Chris Barman tells us how exactly it’s making a $25,000 EV

[Roy]

Just a few comments. My education background is industrial engineering, and I worked early in my career as an equipment planning engineer at an aerospace manufacturing plant, which means I spec'd, planned for and assisted in the installation of manufacturing equipment and machinery. I studied plastics manufacturing as part of my engineering curriculum. I'm pretty well versed in industrial manufacturing, but no expert in the automotive sector, though as a car geek, I've followed car manufacturing as an intellectual interest for the part 40 years.

I found her revelation about the manual window crank mechanism interesting because in other posts I've stated I do not see a cost savings in manual-crank windows when the vast majority of the industry uses electric windows. She confirmed what I thought, which is there are no American suppliers in the automotive sector that manufacture manual crank window assemblies. So, they had to source from Brazil. I've not looked, but if the US tariff posture has changed for Brazil regarding automotive parts, even a 5% tariff increase may make the manual windows more expensive than US-sourced electric windows. And why did Slate develop an electric window accessory, which hopefully is sourced from a non-tariff US supplier. It just says gimmic to me.

Second, the choice of MIC FRP (molded in color fiber reinforced plastic) panels. I get the capitalization (CapEx) position that lots of cost is saved by not having a paint shop at the factory, which I think led to moving to MIC FRP panels. GM pioneered this body architecture with the Fiero, the Pontiac Transport/Olds Silhouette, then the spaceframe/plastic panels architecture was the basis of the entire Saturn car company (initially - before GM Corp. got involved and pulled Saturn back into the corporate fold). But I don't think plastic panels are any less costly to produce than stamped steel alternatives. Slate's reasoning is that the company saves CapEx on not having stamping machinery in the plant to produce the panels and the MIC saves the requirement to pant the panels. Yet (as we know from the Munro video) the chassis will be fabricated in the plant from supplier-sourced stamped steel parts using an automated welding line. The chassis then will be E-coated on site in the plant. While not the same process as spray-painting the assembled body, the metal is coated with a decent looking paint-like application to prevent corrosion. It can be wrapped to the choice of color just as much as the planned plastic body.

GM developed the Fiero (and follow-on GM models) spaceframe/plastic architecture to reduce manufacturing costs as well reducing generational body design changes since the panels are non-structural, bolt-on parts, which makes updating the design much less costly. So, if Slate's idea is to produce a one-color "blank Slate" that has to be wrapped by the customer to change paint color, why not just build the body with steel panels and E-coat the whole thing? I would think the Slate FRP panels is standing up a new supplier base that is going to produce the large plastic panels since most of the industry uses steel stampings. Manufacturing large plastic panels that need some level of good surface finish and color consistency is not inexpensive. Large plastic injection molding machines and dies are not cheap, which is CapEx Slate will pay for via its supplier pricing. Note that GM abandoned its spaceframe/plastic panel architecture decades ago, which could be reasoning that it turned out in the end not to be less expensive to produce(?). So, my thought here is, what is Slate doing different than GM to make the spaceframe/plastic panel architecture financially viable?

I think Slate's idea that customers are going to embrace the idea of DIY wrapping their newly purchased Blank Slate is on the edge of wishful thinking. Yeah, the marketing tagline is "the panels are designed for easy wrap application" (of Slate's wrap kit), but still, there is some art and skill to wrapping a car body that I'd say even the most auto DIY'ers (like me) don't have. Expecting a DIY'er who is not skilled in wrapping to get an acceptable finish the first time out is not realistic in my opinion. I'll probably rattle-can mine since I have much more experience painting with a spray can than I do vinyl wrapping a car. And no tools are needed to use a rattle can, where wrapping requires a unique tool set.

I do think the BYOD infotainment is a great idea and cost savings for development purposes, but does it really save that much? They still have a Seattle-based software team on staff to develop what software is needed for the EV drivetrain control and smartphone apps. I'm sure the automotive industry by now has a decent supplier base of infotainment developers.

Just some observations.

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis. You have brought up some very god questions regarding the build process. Some of the choices may have changed time and an evolution of materials, methods and processes. Things do change, even manufacturing. I feel that there are a host of questions regarding the Slate that are still to be answered. An example is: How are insurance companies going rate the platform, Do they have a receiver hitch install figured out, How will they do warranty repair, How will they get the trucks to customers? There are still many questions to be answered. I do respect Slate management for their efforts. No matter wether I actually get a Slate in my garage or not is irrelevant, this is a storm of fresh air in the world right now.

 

[dcgray2]

Ford smartly mounted the mirrors on the Bronco on the body rather than the doors. With my XJ, the doors were so easy to remove and fit in the back, that I'd often take them off during the day. I kept a 12MM wrench in the console along with two large bicycle handlebar-end mirrors I rigged up to slide into the top door hinge with a spacer and long bolt with a wing nut.

I think PA has since revised it's no-door law IIRC.

Yes PA changed it's law last year. Doors off are fine if the mfg made the vehicle to be able to remove the doors. And yes you still need side mirrors.

IF the doors are removable and IF they offer them, get the mfg door bags. I can't recommend these enough. Makes doors easier to remove and keeps them safe while in storage.

 

[sodamo]

You bring up a good point about insurance. Is or should there be a premium adjustment if someone buys a pickup slate then converts it to the SUV. Slate has stated that an owner can't just add the rear seat and roof section without adding the rollbar that houses the side curtain airbags (thanks to Ford for developing the rollbar/airbag concept ), but is that a detail that gets down into the insurance pricing tables? I would think it is the Slate owner's responsibility tell his insurance company he's made the conversion.

I would think something of the honor system. Yes owner responsible to update insurance company, but fine print may come into pkay and deny claim should they don’t. Could imagine insurance company requiring pictures if seat removed and owner claiming just a truck.

 

[motorolas]

@motorolas found a good article that has an informative interview of Slate Auto CEO Chris Barman.

Slate Auto CEO Chris Barman tells us how exactly it’s making a $25,000 EV -- The automotive veteran explains why her company can deliver a cheap electric vehicle when others, like Tesla, have failed.

Here's a link to @motorolas' likable post.

Thanks @a]AZFox. Here’s another article from the same site showing a bit more of the Slate, two videos of the Slate slowing driving
https://sherwood.news/culture/inside-slate-auto-michigan-design-studio-factory/

 

[Tinker]

I enjoyed the article. Thanks for posting

 

[AZFox]

Thanks @a]AZFox. Here’s another article from the same site showing a bit more of the Slate, two videos of the Slate slowing driving
https://sherwood.news/culture/inside-slate-auto-michigan-design-studio-factory/

Thanks!

Seeing an actual truck rolling adds a little something. I'll tell you what it doesn't add though: patience.

 

[sodamo]

Thanks!

Seeing an actual truck rolling adds a little something. I'll tell you what it doesn't add though: patience.

Oh me of little patience. 🤪🤪🤪

 

[EverythingSlate]

Here is my observations about a door-less Slate. I speak from experience as I owned a '95 Jeep XJ Wrangler for 12 years and I now own a '22 Bronco.

Both of those vehicles were designed from the onset to have removable doors. The Jeep's doors were half-doors with a removable plastic/vinyl window. One nut secured the top door hinge and the door hinge stuck out from the body. The doors had no electrics in them, so no wire harness, no glass, which cuts the weight down significantly. The door check is a simple strap that loops over a hook on the kick panel.

The modern Bronco doors are much more complex to remove. The doors have electric windows and locks, and side impact sensors, so there is a hefty electrical harness. The harness unplugs at the body door frame. The connector has a watertight cover door that springs closed. The Bronco doors have hard-to-access hinges, which makes it a bit difficult to take the doors easily on and off. And the doors are heavy compared to the old Wrangler's doors. Ford thoughtfully molded into the door card a grab point at the bottom of the door to assist in lifting the door off the hinges. The door checks are built into the hinges.

Now what most people don't understand about the Jeep and Bronco is fit-tolerance. Because the doors are designed to be removed, they do not seal as tightly to the body as a conventional truck or SUV. The body-line gaps are wider and the rubber door seals are looser. All necessary to make the door easier to remove and install, which comes at a cost of noise and water intrusion. One of the complaints about Wranglers, and more so Broncos, are the vehicles are loud inside. That is in part because of the is door designed to be easily removed.

I don't think Slate has developed a door design that purposely makes the door easy to remove as the Wrangler and Bronco are. The Slate looks like it has simple hinges, which have somewhat easy access to the hinge bolts, but it looks like the doors are designed to seal tightly to the door frame, unlike the Wangler and Bronco. My observation is the Slate doors will be not be easily removed and how will the crash protection system be affected. The Bronco and modern Wrangler have workarounds built into the crash protection system that recognizes the doors are removed. That's a whole lot more engineering involved than simply just unbolting the door and pulling it off the body.

Again, not being negative, just discussing the engineering and cost elements involved.

loving your insights E90 and I agree with most your logic.

 

[Doctors Do Little]

Plan on a Bimini and no doors... Debating if a marine rated head unit would be a good idea.

Yes! You have the vision!

 

[sodamo]

So a curious thought this morning. What if Slate’s $25,000 number really is their goal number at actual production and not $25,000 today that will be adjusted for inflation.

 

[Doctors Do Little]

So a curious thought this morning. What if Slate’s $25,000 number really is their goal number at actual production and not $25,000 today that will be adjusted for inflation.

Love your optimism.

 

[AZFox]

So a curious thought this morning. What if Slate’s $25,000 number really is their goal number at actual production and not $25,000 today that will be adjusted for inflation.

Has Slate Auto has ever claimed $25,000 will be the projected price? The lowest price I've seen mentioned is "Just under $20,000 with the $7,500 tax credit".

They've said "mid-$20,000's" simultaneously with that. Mid-$20,000's presumably includes $22,500.01 and $27,499.99 and everything in between.

 

[Dorbiman]

Has Slate Auto has ever claimed $25,000 will be the projected price? The lowest price I've seen mentioned is "Just under $20,000 with the $7,500 tax credit".

They've said "mid-$20,000's" simultaneously with that. Mid-$20,000's presumably includes $22,500.01 and $27,499.99 and everything in between.

No, they haven’t. I am hoping for that though, as in the interview between Chris and Munro recently, the $25,000 number came up a few times and was never hedged or corrected by either Chris or Eric, the chief engineer. It would have been really easy to interject and say “well, we’re targeting mid 20s but are unready to announce pricing at this time”

 

[KevinRS]

Part of their business model from the start has been getting to profitable faster than anyone else has done, so I think they may have more margin built into the quoted price, giving them some flexibility if costs go up.