AWD! Please!

[E90400K]

The Tacoma TRD Offroad had an electric locker (not LSD, but a nice helical quaife style does pretty well in snow too[what I have in my mr2, I would rate 2wd with LSD to be almost as good as AWD with open diffs]). From the factory, you can only use it in 4lo, but a little wiring makes it work whenever you want. That's why I have direct experience in a pickup that's a similar weight to the slate with 4wd open diffs, 2wd open diff, 4wd rear locked, and 2wd locked. Once I could lock the rear end, I very rarely used 4wd.
That being said, electric lockers are also available aftermarket.
Traction control using the brakes seems to be getting way better, but I was never impressed with it in older vehicles.

I wasn't talking about modded vehicles. No factory production 2WD vehicle has an electronically locking rear diff. Most don't even have LSD as traction control has mostly made them unnecessary.

As Sandman says above, the correct tires are the most important piece of equipment and I'll add as much as important as ground clearance.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

I wasn't talking about modded vehicles. No factory production 2WD vehicle has an electronically locking rear diff. Most don't even have LSD as traction control has mostly made them unnecessary.

As Sandman says above, the correct tires are the most important piece of equipment and I'll add as much as important as ground clearance.

No factory production vehicle has snow tires either.

 

[AZFox]

Something to consider is that EVs, with their powerful low-RPM torque, apparently don't have Traction Control completely sorted out yet.

https://www.slateforums.com/forum/threads/performance-in-snow.13126/post-190523

 

[E90400K]

No factory production vehicle has snow tires either.

Sure they do. Both my H3T and Bronco came from the factory with snow rated tires. Why are you arguing?

 

[Letas]

Sure they do. Both my H3T and Bronco came from the factory with snow rated tires. Why are you arguing?

If we are nitpicking, all-seasons that are M+S rated or 3PMSF rated are not snow tires.
That being said, a good 3PMSF rated all season tire is more than enough for most, and I'm a fan personally. M+S Rating, less so as there is no real regulation behind it (as far as I know).

 

[ElectricShitbox]

Sure they do. Both my H3T and Bronco came from the factory with snow rated tires. Why are you arguing?

Your response to my claim that "2wd with a locker > awd with open diffs" was that "No factory production 2WD vehicle has an electronically locking rear diff." Which does nothing to disprove my claim.

And while all terrains that are snow rated are good, they are not true snow tires.

 

[beatle]

I'm not going to cite my sources for chain control requirements. They are easy to look up, explicitly defined and well discussed online. I've learned them thoroughly (and witnessed varying levels of enforcement state-to-state. I am not inclined to convince someone of their legitimacy when they do not want to be convinced.

Okay, but you're the one who claimed this was a legal hurdle, not me. I tried looking up such a regulation before I replied and I found nothing specific that said you must have 4WD. I called your bluff on this and you can't cite a single one, even for a regulation that's "easy to look up." Baseless arguments are rarely convincing and this is no exception.

 

[E90400K]

Your response to my claim that "2wd with a locker > awd with open diffs" was that "No factory production 2WD vehicle has an electronically locking rear diff." Which does nothing to disprove my claim.

And while all terrains that are snow rated are good, they are not true snow tires.

This is the factory tire on the Bronco Black Diamond. Read. "Severe Snow Service Rated". English translation... "snow tire"

 

[ElectricShitbox]

This is the factory tire on the Bronco Black Diamond. Read. "Severe Snow Service Rated". English translation... "snow tire"

I used to run those on my ranger/tacoma, and they're exactly what I would put on something AWD/4WD year round. On my 2wd vehicles I have summer and winter tires. Look at something like a General Altimax Arctic, which is a dedicated snow tire. (Someone else is gonna come in and say "That's not a real snow tire, only Nokian makes REAL snow tires", but I am in fact too poor for Nokians)

 

[Letas]

Okay, but you're the one who claimed this was a legal hurdle, not me. I tried looking up such a regulation before I replied and I found nothing specific that said you must have 4WD. I called your bluff on this and you can't cite a single one, even for a regulation that's "easy to look up." Baseless arguments are rarely convincing and this is no exception.

To quote my original statement...

in some states, legal requirements make owning a non 4wd/awd vehicle a downright pain. California, Utah, Colorado, etc. all have chain control laws that heavily punish 2wd cars. It would take some serious convincing for me to but a 2wd car again, in my current state.

Nowhere did I say you MUST have AWD to drive in certain areas due to requirements (although that actually is true for a very select few areas- Mauna Kea summit in Hawaii, some trails in Utah, etc). I said it was a pain having 2WD.

To reiterate it being a pain, here is Californias chain requirement.

• Requirement 2 (R2): Chains or traction devices are required on all vehicles except four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles with snow-tread tires on all four wheels.
  NOTE: (Four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas.)

Utah's laws are slightly more forgiving, softening the requirement from 3PMSF rated tires to just M+S tires for 4wd/awd.

Colorado is similar to California- 4WD/AWD cars need decent tires with decent tread (paraphrasing, but All-weathers with 4/16 tread count), where 2wd needs chains or an alternative traction device.

Washington state has similar requirements, where 2wd requires chains where 4wd/awd only requires decent tires.


Is that enough of a base for you?

 

[AZFox]

Living in The Valley of The Sun means I don't know much about this, however I looked it up and, at least in CA, sometimes you only need snow tires on two drive wheels.

On the bright side, sometimes snow tires are sufficient.

Chains are mandatory on all vehicles except passenger vehicles and light-duty trucks under 6,000 pounds gross weight with snow tires on two drive wheels.​

This is only for the lowest-level chain requirement, R-1. (There are three levels.)

The three levels are described here:
https://dot.ca.gov/travel/winter-driving-tips/chain-controls

 

[beatle]

We're just going around in circles now. I already stated that. It doesn't sound like you'll ever be convinced that 2WD is fine anyway, so just move along.

 

[Letas]

We're just going around in circles now. I already stated that. It doesn't sound like you'll ever be convinced that 2WD is fine anyway, so just move along.

I am on this forum for discussion, not decision making. My goal is not to change my (or other's) personal buying decision- that would be silly. Purchasing a car is far too emotional to think that would be worthwhile in the slightest.

Compare even you and I- we live in vastly different areas, likely with different lifestyle habits, it would be silly to assume we have the same requirements.

My point around this entire dialogue here is to say that there are large swaths of people (whom Slate is directly marketing to) who will not consider a 2wd car for purchase, and it is a missed mark given the relatively simple integration of AWD on an EV vs an ICE.

 

[Driven5]

No factory production 2WD vehicle has an electronically locking rear diff.

F150, Ram 1500, Ranger, Colorado, and Tacoma all disagree.

 

[AZFox]

At planned full production they will be making around 2-3% of the vehicles sold in the US.

I've been saying less than 1%, calculated as 150,000 anticipated capacity divided by 16.2 million light vehicles sold in 2025.

It's not a perfect fit for everybody.
It doesn't need to be.