If the Slate PU came only as an ICE, I would buy one.

[GaRailroader]

A lot of EVs will ramp up power in order to try to keep people from spinning their tires and wearing them prematurely.

FWIW, my current EV has 42K miles on it and is still using the OEM tires. Others with the same trim of this car have only gotten 15K miles out of the same tires. It's all down to how one drives. One can burn through tires in an ICE car too, it's just usually harder to do since ICE aren't as torque-heavy as EVs.

After closer review of the article, the data was collected from a highway response service to breakdowns on the side of the road.(In Georgia we call these HERO units). The EV’s had a higher rate of calling the HERO unit for a tire issue than ICE vehicles. I will point out I have never had an ICE vehicle that didn’t have a spare, even if it was a compact spare, and a jack. Conversely, I have never had an EV that had a spare or a jack. (Granted I only have 2 EV data points). I suspect with a tire failure an EV is much more likely to call a HERO unit than an ICE vehicle is due to not having a spare or jack on most EVs. I did have a blowout in my Tesla a few weeks ago driving back to Atlanta from St Louis. Fortunately, I had replaced the OEM tires with run flats so I was able to limp to a tire shop and get a new tire and didn’t call a HERO unit.

 

[E90400K]

After closer review of the article, the data was collected from a highway response service to breakdowns on the side of the road.(In Georgia we call these HERO units). The EV’s had a higher rate of calling the HERO unit for a tire issue than ICE vehicles. I will point out I have never had an ICE vehicle that didn’t have a spare, even if it was a compact spare, and a jack. Conversely, I have never had an EV that had a spare or a jack. (Granted I only have 2 EV data points). I suspect with a tire failure an EV is much more likely to call a HERO unit than an ICE vehicle is due to not having a spare or jack on most EVs. I did have a blowout in my Tesla a few weeks ago driving back to Atlanta from St Louis. Fortunately, I had replaced the OEM tires with run flats so I was able to limp to a tire shop and get a new tire and didn’t call a HERO unit.

I don't know if the article had a link to the German data, and if it did was the German data presented in English. It seemed to key in on 12-volt battery issues and tire issues. Several EV brands have low voltage battery issues, the Mach E does and early Teslas did, and Audi IIRC. It seems the EV electrical architecture is not good at keeping LVB healthy. Mach E's lose the LVB every 36 months or so based on info that can be gathered on the MME forum. If I had a car that locks me out because it's 12-volt battery died and my kids were trapped in the car on a summer's day (several threads on the MME forum of such events), that effing vehicle would be out of my fleet the very next day.

What I'd like to see the data say is do EV or ICE leave their driver on the side of the road due to a failure of the drivetrain components. My definition of unreliable is does my car get me back home when I take it for a drive? All machines break. If I need a two home, then I have experienced a reliability issue. I could give a rat's ass if a tire is damaged by road debris or the 12V starter battery goes flat. The article seemed to try and indicate that ICEV are less reliable than EV based on battery and tire issues but inferred the numerous rotational components associated with an ICEV drivetrain left drivers with a reliability situation.

 

[GaRailroader]

The article seemed to try and indicate that ICEV are less reliable than EV based on battery and tire issues but inferred the numerous rotational components associated with an ICEV drivetrain left drivers with a reliability situation.

Actually the article indicated that tires were the only category that ICEV surpassed EV in reliability.

• Tires are the only category where electric car face more breakdowns than combustion vehicles.

My theory on why that would be is due to EV’s being much less likely to have a spare and a jack.

What’s most important to me is to not be stranded on the side of the road regardless of the breakdown reason. The data they are presenting shows that you are less likely to be stranded on the side in an EV than you will in an ICEV despite being more likely to be stranded due to tire failure. The tire failure issue can be mitigated either by adding a spare and jack to your EV or getting run flats. I am sold on the run flats after this recent blowout.

 

[AZFox]

Why is the need for a routine maintenance item an "issue" and how is it tied to reliability?

Because simplicity.

"Can break" is not the same as "do break"

The article says EVs break down and need roadside assistance less than half as frequently (4.2 vs 10.4).

 

[atreis]

After closer review of the article, the data was collected from a highway response service to breakdowns on the side of the road.(In Georgia we call these HERO units). The EV’s had a higher rate of calling the HERO unit for a tire issue than ICE vehicles. I will point out I have never had an ICE vehicle that didn’t have a spare, even if it was a compact spare, and a jack. Conversely, I have never had an EV that had a spare or a jack. (Granted I only have 2 EV data points). I suspect with a tire failure an EV is much more likely to call a HERO unit than an ICE vehicle is due to not having a spare or jack on most EVs. I did have a blowout in my Tesla a few weeks ago driving back to Atlanta from St Louis. Fortunately, I had replaced the OEM tires with run flats so I was able to limp to a tire shop and get a new tire and didn’t call a HERO unit.

I also like having a spare. My EV (Nissan Ariya) didn't come with a spare, but has room for one under the rear deck (filled with a large foam insert), and even has a center post for a bolt to hold it in place. The space is big enough to fit a donut without taking up any of the storage space, or a full-size spare with a very small loss of under-deck space. I bought a rim off ebay, mounted an inexpensive tire to it, and now have a full-size spare. Fortunately I've not needed it.

 

[GaRailroader]

I also like having a spare. My EV (Nissan Ariya) didn't come with a spare, but has room for one under the rear deck (filled with a large foam insert), and even has a center post for a bolt to hold it in place. The space is big enough to fit a donut without taking up any of the storage space, or a full-size spare with a very small loss of under-deck space. I bought a rim off ebay, mounted an inexpensive tire to it, and now have a full-size spare. Fortunately I've not needed it.

Interesting. My Leaf doesn't have any spare tire sized unused storage area. What did you do about a jack?

 

[E90400K]

Because simplicity.



The article says EVs break down and need roadside assistance less than half as frequently (4.2 vs 10.4).

But what are the categories of the breakdowns? Running out of fuel? Dead 12V batteries, flat tire, connecting rod through the side of the engine block, melted stator, broken windings? And for cars from 2020 to 2022.

If we knew the specific data we can assess why each type of car broke down and needed assistance. Is it ownership behavior (i.e. poor adherence to recommended maintenance), or engineering/build quality error.

 

[AZFox]

But what are the categories of the breakdowns?

Thanks for pointing that out!

We know statistics for two categories they have in common. What happens when you remove those breakdowns an re-compare?...

12-volt batteries were the issue in 50 percent of the breakdowns for EVs and 45 percent of the breakdowns for combustion cars, so we can narrow it down.

4.2 x.50% = 2.1
10.4 x 55% = 5.72
5.72 / 2.1 = 272%

So if you remove 12v battery failures ICEVs break down 172% more than EVs!

But wait, there's more...

Tires are 1.3 calls and 0.9 calls for EVs and ICEVs respectively.

2.1 - 1.3 = 0.8
5.72 - 0.9 = 4.82

4.82 / 0.8 = 603%

If the article's data is correct, that means ICEVs break down SIX TIMES AS FREQUENTLY compared to EVs when you disregard the 12v battery and tire issues they have in common!

 

[atreis]

Interesting. My Leaf doesn't have any spare tire sized unused storage area. What did you do about a jack?

I bought a scissor jack with an appropriate weight rating. It fits in the well at the back under the spare (there's a deeper bit right at the back of the car). I put the spare in upside down and put the charging cord that came with the car inside the rim. The can of fix-a-flat and air pump that came with the car fit in the corners.

FWIW, it only works in the FWD model that doesn't have the Bose sound system. The rear motor takes up some of that space on the AWD trims, and cars with the upgraded sound system have a sub mounted in the foam insert.

 

[E90400K]

Thanks for pointing that out!

We know statistics for two categories they have in common. What happens when you remove those breakdowns an re-compare?...

12-volt batteries were the issue in 50 percent of the breakdowns for EVs and 45 percent of the breakdowns for combustion cars, so we can narrow it down.

4.2 x.50% = 2.1
10.4 x 55% = 5.72
5.72 / 2.1 = 272%

So if you remove 12v battery failures ICEVs break down 172% more than EVs!

But wait, there's more...

Tires are 1.3 calls and 0.9 calls for EVs and ICEVs respectively.

2.1 - 1.3 = 0.8
5.72 - 0.9 = 4.82

4.82 / 0.8 = 603%

If the article's data is correct, that means ICEVs break down SIX TIMES AS FREQUENTLY compared to EVs when you disregard the 12v battery and tire issues they have in common!

Okay, fun math, but what are the other categories of breakdowns? And how are those breakdowns related to or correlate with parts count and chemical reaction process? (i.e. simplicity) AND, the data is per 1,000 cars. How about breakdowns by miles driven?

If the article only comments on LVB and tires, why does it not present the rest of the data set?

 

[AZFox]

If the article only comments on LVB and tires, why does it not present the rest of the data set?

How would I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd be interested to know why ICEVs break down 6x as frequently compared to EVs when you disregard LVB and tire issues.

The article was about German motorists. Turns out UK motorists have the same results. Go figure!

To quote Lee Puffett, Managing Director of Start Rescue: “Our figures show electric cars ranging from new to 10-years old are 59% less prone to breakdowns than ICE cars.​

The Driven: The data is in: EVs far less likely to break down than ICE cars

 

[KevinRS]

How would I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd be interested to know why ICEVs break down 6x as frequently compared to EVs when you disregard LVB and tire issues.

The article was about German motorists. Turns out UK motorists have the same results. Go figure!

To quote Lee Puffett, Managing Director of Start Rescue: “Our figures show electric cars ranging from new to 10-years old are 59% less prone to breakdowns than ICE cars.​

The Driven: The data is in: EVs far less likely to break down than ICE cars

I tried for a bit to find the source of that, most mentions of it have no source, and I can't find it on the start rescue site. I figured if I could find the source, it might have more data.

 

[E90400K]

How would I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd be interested to know why ICEVs break down 6x as frequently compared to EVs when you disregard LVB and tire issues.

The article was about German motorists. Turns out UK motorists have the same results. Go figure!

To quote Lee Puffett, Managing Director of Start Rescue: “Our figures show electric cars ranging from new to 10-years old are 59% less prone to breakdowns than ICE cars.​

The Driven: The data is in: EVs far less likely to break down than ICE cars

Exactly, I'd like to know too, THAT is what I've been asking you.

It matters because for instance, lets say a breakdown category is running out of fuel. In an ICEV it is a simple situation for the recovery vehicle to bring 2 gallons of gasoline and the vehicle is recharged for 60 miles or so to go find a fuel station. When an EV is run out of energy it is quite a different ordeal in time and perhaps cost if the EV recovery vehicle is a generator truck.

This quote from the article is perplexing, "In almost every single category over the last few years, combustion cars have seen more or equal issues when compared to EVs, including the electrical system, engine management, and lighting."

In past years ICEV were "more or equal", so why now is the gap so large? Has there been some significant tech changes in EV for the significant reduction in breakdowns? I can't think of any for EV between 2020 and 2022 model years. Maybe the issue is ICEV build quality because of COVID supply chain issues during those years?