Now that the dust has settled...

[cvollers]

And that’s where I fully disagree. This only works as a fun secondary car.

If you’re lower income and have a max budget of $25k for a primary car you’re buying a Civic over this 99/100 times. Even if EVs get more affordable they’re still luxury items due to all of the constraints.

Bingo…you nailed it.

 

[E90400K]

Responding to (b), I think you misunderstand the tax credit. Since January 2024, it requires no income tax due to have the $7500 credit forgiven. I've had to pay attention to this since I'm retired/collecting Social Security. You do need to have the dealer provide the rebate at point of sale, but most new dealers are doing this now.

This wasn't the case before 2024. Then the $7500 tax credit would only offset what ever Fed taxes you owed.

Regarding the Maverick, it is a gas truck. I made the decision in 2015 to not buy any more new gas vehicles. We've already blown through 1.5C.

Thanks for the clarification. I did not look into the detail of the IRA of 2022 changes to the tax credit regarding the allowability to apply the tax credit at point of sale. The POS tax credit transfers the tax credit to the dealer and takes the individual's tax liabilities out of the calculation. A small but significant detail to know. That's really the only way it can work to get the credit active at the point of sale to lower the effictive price of the EV.

On other forums years ago I brought this issue up and actually discussed it at the Chevy dealership when I was looking at the Volt. I have always stated that to further enhance EV sales, the tax rebate should somehow be applied at the point of sale. But how to do that due to figuring out a buyer's tax liability to see if the full refund could apply was not possible until the Buyer filed his taxes.

I guess the IRS did a study on how many EV sales would rebate the max credit of $7,500 to a EV sale if the buyer did not have at least $7,500 in tax liability. They probably concluded the administration of accountability was more than the projected imbalance.

That, and we print money on trees these days... 🤣🤣🤣

 

[TRP]

Folks getting hung up on the 150 mile range are experiencing range anxiety. Which is typical for someone going from an ICE vehicle to a BEV. You get hung up on needing to find a "gas station" when in reality you treat this vehicle just like you treat your cell phone. You plug it in every night and wake up to a full charge (or 80/90% if you're concerned about proper battery treatment depending on chemistry).

The point is, 150 or 90 miles is going to be fine for the vast majority of people for a daily driver/work commuter vehicle. I honestly cannot see this vehicle as anything more than that. I wouldn't want to go long distances in it. That short wheel base is gonna be bumpy.

I have a 2021 Mach E with 103,000 miles on it. We lived remotely for most of those miles and a 50 amp charger and max charge set to 90% worked perfectly fine. We had a 150 mile round trip to a decent grocery store or restaurants. Charge to 100% when needed. We drove it all over the eastern US. Just took a little extra planning. Now we live in a city and our house has only a 100 amp service and 1 20 amp outlet in the garage. So, I plug it in to 20amp and set max charge to 80%..............and guess what...it works perfectly fine for city driving. Granted I have a larger battery pack and 80% gets me roughly 200 miles but I never use anywhere near that unless I go out of town. Plug it in when I get home and wake up to 80% again.

Just my opinion but I think folks are way over thinking the total range.

 

[E90400K]

Folks getting hung up on the 150 mile range are experiencing range anxiety. Which is typical for someone going from an ICE vehicle to a BEV. You get hung up on needing to find a "gas station" when in reality you treat this vehicle just like you treat your cell phone. You plug it in every night and wake up to a full charge (or 80/90% if you're concerned about proper battery treatment depending on chemistry).

The point is, 150 or 90 miles is going to be fine for the vast majority of people for a daily driver/work commuter vehicle. I honestly cannot see this vehicle as anything more than that. I wouldn't want to go long distances in it. That short wheel base is gonna be bumpy.

I have a 2021 Mach E with 103,000 miles on it. We lived remotely for most of those miles and a 50 amp charger and max charge set to 90% worked perfectly fine. We had a 150 mile round trip to a decent grocery store or restaurants. Charge to 100% when needed. We drove it all over the eastern US. Just took a little extra planning. Now we live in a city and our house has only a 100 amp service and 1 20 amp outlet in the garage. So, I plug it in to 20amp and set max charge to 80%..............and guess what...it works perfectly fine for city driving. Granted I have a larger battery pack and 80% gets me roughly 200 miles but I never use anywhere near that unless I go out of town. Plug it in when I get home and wake up to 80% again.

Just my opinion but I think folks are way over thinking the total range.

I still think if an owner can't charge at home the usable range of just 90 miles and having to wait 30 minutes to recharge to 80% SOC on the public infrastructure is going to not play well for some of the Slate's lower income target market.

I don't go to my local Sheets to plug my phone in to charge it for an hour.

 

[TRP]

I still think if an owner can't charge at home the usable range of just 90 miles and having to wait 30 minutes to recharge to 80% SOC on the public infrastructure is going to not play well for some of the Slate's lower income target market.

I don't go to my local Sheets to plug my phone in to charge it for an hour.

If you have no way to change at home then perhaps a BEV is not the best choice for you.

Unfortunately that's just the facts at this time in history. When/if apartments and condos start adding Level 2 charge stations it will be better. Until then..........I personally would not like to rely on public charging as my sole means of charging my car

 

[cvollers]

I still think if an owner can't charge at home the usable range of just 90 miles and having to wait 30 minutes to recharge to 80% SOC on the public infrastructure is going to not play well for some of the Slate's lower income target market.

I don't go to my local Sheets to plug my phone in to charge it for an hour.

Has Slate said even once that their target is low income consumers? Just because the cost is low, does not mean the target is low income. I think their target is people who are fiscally conservative and want a low cost second vehicle or small business owners who are always looking for ways to save money.

 

[E90400K]

Has Slate said even once that their target is low income consumers? Just because the cost is low, does not mean the target is low income. I think their target is people who are fiscally conservative and want a low cost second vehicle or small business owners who are always looking for ways to save money.

If you watch the official reveal video the first guy who comes out rifles off socioeconomic statistics about the average American family can't afford a new car. Using round numbers from my memory after seeing the video last week, he states the average American family can afford in a reasonable household budget, around a $400 car payment. He then states the average new car car payment is $700. While talking medians rather an averages would be better, the point is clear regarding some portion of Slate's target market is lower income families. I believe I used the term "lower income" rather than "low income", just to be clear.

What he doesn't say is Slate is building their car to fulfill the cheap-ass nitch 2nd or 3rd car in the fleet of the middle class consumer.

I'll add, that trying to sell a vehicle as a secondary household vehicle is a tough market. Cars that are 2-seaters, or have limited use, like roadsters and sport coupes, sell in low volume numbers.

 

[Letas]

Has Slate said even once that their target is low income consumers? Just because the cost is low, does not mean the target is low income. I think their target is people who are fiscally conservative and want a low cost second vehicle or small business owners who are always looking for ways to save money.

I think it is a tough sell to say it is not intended for lower income consumers. Porsche doesn't say their cars are for financially irresponsible consumers with strong lending power. This is the only product the company is selling, they need to sell as many as possible to be successful.

 

[cvollers]

I think it is a tough sell to say it is not intended for lower income consumers. Porsche doesn't say their cars are for financially irresponsible consumers with strong lending power. This is the only product the company is selling, they need to sell as many as possible to be successful.

Porsche is for price insensitive buyers who appreciate the quality of engineering, driving dynamics, and features that goes into the Porsche product. My point is that you don’t have to be low income to be price sensitive.

 

[E90400K]

Porsche is for price insensitive buyers who appreciate the quality of engineering, driving dynamics, and features that goes into the Porsche product. My point is that you don’t have to be low income to be price sensitive.

But most people who are in lower income brackets are price sensitive.

 

[Letas]

But most people who are in lower income brackets are price sensitive.

Exactly. “We are going to create a car that goes against the grain and is affordable to the masses”

but

it won’t be suitable for the masses….

 

[Sojourner]

Really wish they would’ve offered a AWD/4x4 option with reasonable range.

^^^ This ^^^

Hopefully, that will be an early announcement once vehicles start going out the door. That's why I'm waiting....

Queue Dusty Springfield....

 

[cadblu]

Folks who own high end luxury or sports cars will still appreciate the simplicity and value engineering that Slate promises. The real issue is Slate may never actually deliver on the promise. A lot can change in the next 2-3 years with new EV offerings at very attractive prices that will enter the market. Even with Bezos' limited backing, Slate may not raise the astronomical capital required to startup a production facility in that timeframe. Sure, they found a ghost facility in Warsaw Indiana but that will need close to $1B in renovations and new tooling to make this happen. We must consider this is still a startup venture with too many unknowns in the near future. My sad prediction is that Slate will not be available for ordering until mid 2028 or beyond, then in limited quantities. Yes, my reservation is in.... and in fact I have many...

 

[Letas]

^^^ This ^^^

Hopefully, that will be an early announcement once vehicles start going out the door. That's why I'm waiting....

Queue Dusty Springfield....

I think it's going to be a non-negotiable for me. AWD cuts ~10% of EV range, which is already a concern in the Slate, but I drive enough winter mountain passes that I've vowed my next car will be AWD/4x4

 

[E90400K]

Foks who own high end luxury or sports cars will still appreciate the simplicity and value engineering that Slate promises. The real issue is Slate may never actually deliver on the promise. A lot can change in the next 2-3 years with new EV offerings at very attractive prices that will enter the market. Even with Bezos' limited backing, Slate may not raise the astronomical capital required to startup a production facility in that timeframe. Sure, they found a ghost facility in Warsaw Indiana but that will need close to $1B in renovations and new tooling to make this happen. We must consider this is still a startup venture with too many unknowns in the near future. My sad prediction is that Slate will not be available for ordering until mid 2028 or beyond, then in limited quantities. Yes, my reservation is in.... and in fact I have many...

Tying Bezos to it does nothing for me. He may be a great Logistician* and made a fortune (finally) with Amazon, but I don't think he has the engineering (management) prowess of other very wealthy people who are on the World stage.

I'm not sure Bezos brings much more than just money. A billion to him though is probably not a significant investment and might just be fun money to play with.

*GLOAT - Greatest Logistician of All Time