Will Slate provide an AWD Retrofit Kit for the OG Slate Truck?

[AZFox]

[I was going to say a DIY retrofit kit, but that leaves out the possibility of a kit installable by an approved technician.]

Eric Kyper says Slate Auto will have "a Slate portfolio of vehicles with additional features that may or may not fit right underneath the frunk".

Notice that he refers to vehicles in a portfolio, not additional capabilities for the OG Slate Truck.

An AWD Retrofit Kit would need to include not just a motor, but also a differential, half-shaft axles with CV joints, and whatever changes would be necessary at the hub-and-suspension ends of those axles.

If the front motor is significantly powerful you'd be expected to upgrade the brakes as well, because adding a lot of Accelerating Power without increasing Braking Power isn't a very bright idea.

Would an AWD Retrofit Kit be cool? Absolutely! Unfortunately I just don't think it's likely to happen.

 

[Letas]

I'm with you- firmly in the "we are dreaming" category. And I want AWD as much as (almost) anyone else on this forum!

Lot of people mention HV risks associated with this. I don't actually think that is nearly the most risky thing. Modern packs are well insulated, and plug in through a junction box/pcb. Unless you start unbolting the housing and exposing modules, there is no more electrical hazard than plugging in your washing machine. Just don't put your fingers in the orange part.

The real challenge is mechanical. #1, the battery plugs in on the top side, under the floorboards. So unless there is top-down access (which I HIGHLY doubt, and frankly don't think it's even legal), you wouldn't be able to plug in these additional motors without dropping the pack, which is ~1000lbs minimum, and not exactly balanced to be dropped at home.

Then comes installing everything else you mentioned. I know Slate is all about the DIY, but that is a HEFTY project with serious consequences if something is missed. I don't like to play the "liability game" but I don't think Slate would touch that liability.


That being said, there are 3rd party AWD conversion companies. Quigley is the big one I know of. Wouldn't be surprised to see them dip their toes in this down the road.

 

[GoinPostall]

While it would be nice to do a retrofit, I doubt it will happen. I have worked on high voltage (Kalmar Ottawa T2E, 440V with up to 5 batteries in parallel) and have familiarity with it, most people don't, and will be more likely to zap themselves. This is also assuming the front end has enough room to accommodate the motor and proper securement for the high voltage cables. Now something I would be interested in would be doing a motor swap to get more power out of it. But I'm one of those idiots that can't leave anything stock for too long lol

 

[AZFox]

Would a front motor and drivetrain require a shrunk frunk?

 

[Sparkie]

I agree. I think people are seriously misunderstanding the complexity of an All Wheel Drive system on any vehicle, EV or ICE. Unlike the SUV cap and extra seats, an AWD is not simply bolted on the chassis. My whole life, I have done a lot of customizing on my cars. It is nearly suicidal to attempt any DIY on the high voltage controller and battery of an EV. Imagine the law suits for the first amateur idiot that "fries themself" messing with Slate's "AWD kit". It's simply not worth the engineering costs that every other owner will have to subsidize....

 

[Ric G]

Not to mention additional coolant pump, lines, and ancillary components, along with reprogramming the main control unit... and making sure every works all being simple enough that the car doesn't gets bricked (or enters terminator mode!!).

Even if it could be done, IMO there's no way it would make sense economically for either the end user or manufacturer.

 

[Daemoch]

Will there be? Absolutely. Will Slate make it? Most likely I think, yes. There's going to be far FAR too much interest in a kit like that, especially an 'official' one for anything 'truck' classed. (I'm not distinguishing between AWD and 4x4 here, or the variations within each.)

As far as liability to Slate, I asked my wife who is a practicing, licensed attorney and she literally laughed in my face; "No, there would be no liability issue for Slate" she said. Her explanation for why not and her examples were extensive enough I'm not going to waste the ink paraphrasing it here. You want to stick your finger in the orange socket? That's on you. Hook it up wrong and drive into a crowd of children? Hope you got good insurance and a good lawyer. Its no different than if I build a hot rod wrong and it blows up going down the street or I change the brakes on my daily driver and they fail because I put the wrong fluid in. If I drop the engine on Lil' Joey during a rebuild and he gets squished, that's not the fault of any of the manufacturers. The ONLY thing a manufacturer is liable for is that the stuff they sell you is manufactured properly to perform the task it is being sold to you to do. You install it wonky because you thought you knew what you were doing, but didn't.... that's on you. Similarly, your tech installs it wrong, that's on them.

Physical issues, like where and how batteries get attached, where motors go, etc.... Those are all just organizational and structural. Would a kit be bolt on? Maybe. But no one said it was going to be easy, especially for the average DIY, or that you can do it in your driveway in an afternoon. Even if its bolt on I'd probably STILL weld it in because welding is stronger 99% of the time and because I can.

Stop thinking like this is a normal car. It's not. It's a modular vehicle and its electric (in stock form). The people that will buy them will all have wildly different ambitions, skills, and means to apply. There's technically no need for most the traditional drivetrain you see in a traditional car. I've seen hub mounted motors (terrible for un sprung weight) if you really want to K.I.S.S. - change the 'tire' and you change the drive train, too. There's NO NEED for any differentials or axles or anything at all if each wheel gets its own motor. And then the entire traction control gets handled by indexers and a computer. Or make them all hydraulically hubbed wheels and just use one motor to generate pressure and proportioning valves. Ever work on a tractor? I saw a pair of brothers build a motorcycle like that once; gas motor, no gearing or chain or anything and it does 200+mph.....both forwards AND backwards!

I've built and swapped a lot of drivetrains. My first two Camaros when I was a kid I literally twisted into 2 separate pieces because I didnt understand frame stresses when adding 2x-5x HP and what that will do to a car's body. (The only thing holding them together was the drive shaft and part of the roof. But boy were they fun!) Now days I help teenagers build robots in my spare time. Real ones. The kind that can rip your arms off if youre not careful or fry you if you touch the wrong wire. They usually weigh in around 100-300 lbs each. We design them, machine them out of blocks of material, assemble them, write their code, automate them, and remote control them. They run through obstacle courses and compete with other robots. Some of those kids are now the people designing and building the robots you and I see on the news these days; I'm very proud of them. There's nothing a regular person cant do if they think outside the box and take their time. Or pay someone else to do it.

The first thing I'm doing once I get my Slate home is take it apart.

 

[KJRaven]

It all depends on how forward thinking they are, and by the conversations in the video with Rich, they are trying to minimize the amount of parts. That gives me hope that their frame section, hubs, etc would be compatible with their AWD aspirations and could easily be a bolt in product. it was not uncommon for GM to use the same frame for 2wd and 4wd trucks and there would be minimal work to add 4wd for those who were handy enough.


I would expect the design to follow that same methedology and be cross compatible with the AWD version. The battery/electronics sided of things may be the biggest hurdle to upgrading from 2wd to 4wd. So we will see.

 

[Daemoch]

It all depends on how forward thinking they are, and by the conversations in the video with Rich, they are trying to minimize the amount of parts. That gives me hope that their frame section, hubs, etc would be compatible with their AWD aspirations and could easily be a bolt in product. it was not uncommon for GM to use the same frame for 2wd and 4wd trucks and there would be minimal work to add 4wd for those who were handy enough.


I would expect the design to follow that same methedology and be cross compatible with the AWD version. The battery/electronics sided of things may be the biggest hurdle to upgrading from 2wd to 4wd. So we will see.

Up until around the 1940s, cars and trucks all ran on the same frames even, even beyond 2wd/4wd. Sub framing became big in the 1960s and common by the 1980s.

It just make sense to keep the core consistent, especially if you're going for minimal costs and cross platform compatibility for add-ons.

 

[Sparkie]

Not to mention additional coolant pump, lines, and ancillary components, along with reprogramming the main control unit... and making sure every works all being simple enough that the car doesn't gets bricked (or enters terminator mode!!).

Even if it could be done, IMO there's no way it would make sense economically for either the end user or manufacturer.

Yup. I agree 100%.

 

[Sparkie]

Will there be? Absolutely. Will Slate make it? Most likely I think, yes. There's going to be far FAR too much interest in a kit like that, especially an 'official' one for anything 'truck' classed. (I'm not distinguishing between AWD and 4x4 here, or the variations within each.)

As far as liability to Slate, I asked my wife who is a practicing, licensed attorney and she literally laughed in my face; "No, there would be no liability issue for Slate" she said. Her explanation for why not and her examples were extensive enough I'm not going to waste the ink paraphrasing it here. You want to stick your finger in the orange socket? That's on you. Hook it up wrong and drive into a crowd of children? Hope you got good insurance and a good lawyer. Its no different than if I build a hot rod wrong and it blows up going down the street or I change the brakes on my daily driver and they fail because I put the wrong fluid in. If I drop the engine on Lil' Joey during a rebuild and he gets squished, that's not the fault of any of the manufacturers. The ONLY thing a manufacturer is liable for is that the stuff they sell you is manufactured properly to perform the task it is being sold to you to do. You install it wonky because you thought you knew what you were doing, but didn't.... that's on you. Similarly, your tech installs it wrong, that's on them.

Physical issues, like where and how batteries get attached, where motors go, etc.... Those are all just organizational and structural. Would a kit be bolt on? Maybe. But no one said it was going to be easy, especially for the average DIY, or that you can do it in your driveway in an afternoon. Even if its bolt on I'd probably STILL weld it in because welding is stronger 99% of the time and because I can.

Stop thinking like this is a normal car. It's not. It's a modular vehicle and its electric (in stock form). The people that will buy them will all have wildly different ambitions, skills, and means to apply. There's technically no need for most the traditional drivetrain you see in a traditional car. I've seen hub mounted motors (terrible for un sprung weight) if you really want to K.I.S.S. - change the 'tire' and you change the drive train, too. There's NO NEED for any differentials or axles or anything at all if each wheel gets its own motor. And then the entire traction control gets handled by indexers and a computer. Or make them all hydraulically hubbed wheels and just use one motor to generate pressure and proportioning valves. Ever work on a tractor? I saw a pair of brothers build a motorcycle like that once; gas motor, no gearing or chain or anything and it does 200+mph.....both forwards AND backwards!

I've built and swapped a lot of drivetrains. My first two Camaros when I was a kid I literally twisted into 2 separate pieces because I didnt understand frame stresses when adding 2x-5x HP and what that will do to a car's body. (The only thing holding them together was the drive shaft and part of the roof. But boy were they fun!) Now days I help teenagers build robots in my spare time. Real ones. The kind that can rip your arms off if youre not careful or fry you if you touch the wrong wire. They usually weigh in around 100-300 lbs each. We design them, machine them out of blocks of material, assemble them, write their code, automate them, and remote control them. They run through obstacle courses and compete with other robots. Some of those kids are now the people designing and building the robots you and I see on the news these days; I'm very proud of them. There's nothing a regular person cant do if they think outside the box and take their time. Or pay someone else to do it.

The first thing I'm doing once I get my Slate home is take it apart.

Yes, I agree there is a lot of interest in AWD vehicles. And yes, all the mods you mention are possible and you've certainly done similar ones to your earlier cars -- but you did not "buy a kit" for your Camaro that modified and then twisted to distruction.

Up until around the 1940s, cars and trucks all ran on the same frames even, even beyond 2wd/4wd. Sub framing became big in the 1960s and common by the 1980s.

It just make sense to keep the core consistent, especially if you're going for minimal costs and cross platform compatibility for add-ons.

Yes, this is still true today. Auto makers try to share as many components as possible. However, these are still sold as separate model vehicles. And someday, I hope Slate is successful enough to offer multiple Slate vehicle models and keep their philosophy of DIY mod kits.

@Daemoch I do not disagree with most of the points made by both of your posts. However, the context of @AZFox 's survey was the a "kit" for the OG Blank Slate we are all waiting for.

 

[Daemoch]

Yes, I agree there is a lot of interest in AWD vehicles. And yes, all the mods you mention are possible and you've certainly done similar ones to your earlier cars -- but you did not "buy a kit" for your Camaro that modified and then twisted to distruction.

Yes, this is still true today. Auto makers try to share as many components as possible. However, these are still sold as separate model vehicles. And someday, I hope Slate is successful enough to offer multiple Slate vehicle models and keep their philosophy of DIY mod kits.

@Daemoch I do not disagree with most of the points made by both of your posts. However, the context of @AZFox 's survey was the a "kit" for the OG Blank Slate we are all waiting for.

I didn't say a kit twisted up the Camaros. Although I also didn't say it wasn't. Maybe it was. A supercharger kit, or a Nitrous kit, can and will twist up a body or blow up an engine though, even when properly installed. So why aren't those companies out of business then? Because its on the buyer to be responsible for making compatible choices to what they have and what they are capable of executing on. If you sell it, some idiot will buy it - Take My Money. There is no reason Slate cant make a 'kit' that requires extensive frame or drivetrain modifications. Most car companies have in the past. Ever see pics of a Ford Model A with snow skis and tractor treads? That was a kit from Ford. Or what about licensed kits - Cooper, Skunkworks, M, Shelby, Yenko, etc? You could/can buy a kit that will effectively destroy the vehicle if you dont install it with other supporting products. A 'kit' isnt always a one-size-fits-all or works-all-by-itself solution. A kit is just all-the-bits-you-need-to-make-that-one-thing-work. I've yet to see a Blower kit that came with brakes. Most don't even come with fuel pumps.

Your DIY ability and mine I'm going to say is probably a lot different. That's going to be the case as well for you and my wife. What you or I consider DIY is going to look a LOT different than what she would consider DIY. Slate isn't trying to sell to just her, or you, or me. They are trying to sell a DIY vehicle to EVERYONE thats interested, which is a large range. A 'kit' could be equally varied.

 

[Sparkie]

I didn't say a kit twisted up the Camaros. Although I also didn't say it wasn't. Maybe it was. A supercharger kit, or a Nitrous kit, can and will twist up a body or blow up an engine though, even when properly installed. So why aren't those companies out of business then? Because its on the buyer to be responsible for making compatible choices to what they have and what they are capable of executing on. If you sell it, some idiot will buy it - Take My Money. There is no reason Slate cant make a 'kit' that requires extensive frame or drivetrain modifications. Most car companies have in the past. Ever see pics of a Ford Model A with snow skis and tractor treads? That was a kit from Ford. Or what about licensed kits - Cooper, Skunkworks, M, Shelby, Yenko, etc? You could/can buy a kit that will effectively destroy the vehicle if you dont install it with other supporting products. A 'kit' isnt always a one-size-fits-all or works-all-by-itself solution. A kit is just all-the-bits-you-need-to-make-that-one-thing-work. I've yet to see a Blower kit that came with brakes. Most don't even come with fuel pumps.

Your DIY ability and mine I'm going to say is probably a lot different. That's going to be the case as well for you and my wife. What you or I consider DIY is going to look a LOT different than what she would consider DIY. Slate isn't trying to sell to just her, or you, or me. They are trying to sell a DIY vehicle to EVERYONE thats interested, which is a large range. A 'kit' could be equally varied.

I see your vote and you see mine.
I don't dispute your explanations, but they are not compelling me change how I voted.

 

[Letas]

Will there be? Absolutely. Will Slate make it? Most likely I think, yes. There's going to be far FAR too much interest in a kit like that, especially an 'official' one for anything 'truck' classed. (I'm not distinguishing between AWD and 4x4 here, or the variations within each.)

As far as liability to Slate, I asked my wife who is a practicing, licensed attorney and she literally laughed in my face; "No, there would be no liability issue for Slate" she said. Her explanation for why not and her examples were extensive enough I'm not going to waste the ink paraphrasing it here. You want to stick your finger in the orange socket? That's on you. Hook it up wrong and drive into a crowd of children? Hope you got good insurance and a good lawyer. Its no different than if I build a hot rod wrong and it blows up going down the street or I change the brakes on my daily driver and they fail because I put the wrong fluid in. If I drop the engine on Lil' Joey during a rebuild and he gets squished, that's not the fault of any of the manufacturers. The ONLY thing a manufacturer is liable for is that the stuff they sell you is manufactured properly to perform the task it is being sold to you to do. You install it wonky because you thought you knew what you were doing, but didn't.... that's on you. Similarly, your tech installs it wrong, that's on them.

Physical issues, like where and how batteries get attached, where motors go, etc.... Those are all just organizational and structural. Would a kit be bolt on? Maybe. But no one said it was going to be easy, especially for the average DIY, or that you can do it in your driveway in an afternoon. Even if its bolt on I'd probably STILL weld it in because welding is stronger 99% of the time and because I can.

Stop thinking like this is a normal car. It's not. It's a modular vehicle and its electric (in stock form). The people that will buy them will all have wildly different ambitions, skills, and means to apply. There's technically no need for most the traditional drivetrain you see in a traditional car. I've seen hub mounted motors (terrible for un sprung weight) if you really want to K.I.S.S. - change the 'tire' and you change the drive train, too. There's NO NEED for any differentials or axles or anything at all if each wheel gets its own motor. And then the entire traction control gets handled by indexers and a computer. Or make them all hydraulically hubbed wheels and just use one motor to generate pressure and proportioning valves. Ever work on a tractor? I saw a pair of brothers build a motorcycle like that once; gas motor, no gearing or chain or anything and it does 200+mph.....both forwards AND backwards!

I've built and swapped a lot of drivetrains. My first two Camaros when I was a kid I literally twisted into 2 separate pieces because I didnt understand frame stresses when adding 2x-5x HP and what that will do to a car's body. (The only thing holding them together was the drive shaft and part of the roof. But boy were they fun!) Now days I help teenagers build robots in my spare time. Real ones. The kind that can rip your arms off if youre not careful or fry you if you touch the wrong wire. They usually weigh in around 100-300 lbs each. We design them, machine them out of blocks of material, assemble them, write their code, automate them, and remote control them. They run through obstacle courses and compete with other robots. Some of those kids are now the people designing and building the robots you and I see on the news these days; I'm very proud of them. There's nothing a regular person cant do if they think outside the box and take their time. Or pay someone else to do it.

The first thing I'm doing once I get my Slate home is take it apart.

Nice to know on the liability thing. I think I share a different opinion on the interest on a kit. The DIY tinkerers of today might not be the same as the ones of tomorrow. Working on an ICE vs a EV will attract different crowds. Personally I don’t think there will be enough people eager to take on the day+ project to justify building out a consumer program for this. I think a third party installer would make sense.

Only time will tell!