So many posts about, will you still buy without EV credit [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[Bo’sFarmGeneva]

Nope. Will probably buy a used EV, probably a Kia or Hyundai with some warranty left

I didn’t realize they made an ev truck….?

 

[JeffVA]

I'm out.
After making my reservation 4 days after it launched I've been doing a tremendous amount of research. The Slate is now $27,500 +/-, my only option will be the extended range battery which I'm guessing will be another $3,000. For an electrician to install a 240v charging outlet in my garage will run me at least $2,000 if not more due to location.

So now I'm at about $31,500 and it's still a plastic truck with no radio that can't tow anything useful.

Slate hasn't been completely forthcoming with truthful information also.

The 150 mile battery is actually 90 miles if you follow the 80/20 rule on charging unless you want to destroy your battery within a few years. Add in freezing temperature and your at about 60.

"The Slate is designed to be wrapped". That will run you on average $1,000 from the factory and every 3-5 years you will need to replace it if left outside at a cost of at least $2,000 because you now have the expense of removing the first wrap. So budget about $500 a year to maintain your wrap. And if you don't wrap it you better be prepared to wipe it down monthly with a product like 303 protectant or it will most likely age like a cheap plastic lawn chair left in the sun.

And for me, I would have to rent a real truck to tow my John Deere lawn tractor in for service since combined weight of trailer and mower is 1600 lbs.

And since I keep vehicles about 10 years on average my Slate will be worthless because who is going to buy an EV with a shot battery?

You had a good idea Slate but it's not your time. Unless you embrace lower cost and more reliable LFP batteries to reduce cost and add longevity (like the Chinese did years ago) I doubt you'll make production in this environment. Good luck!

I just ordered my 2025 Velocity Blue Ford Maverick XLT AWD 2.0 Turbo yesterday for a little over 32k and it has a hell of a radio, can tow anything I want and with AWD will not leave me in a ditch or with a dead battery in the cold winter.

Piece Out Slate

 

[sodamo]

I'm out.
After making my reservation 4 days after it launched I've been doing a tremendous amount of research. The Slate is now $27,500 +/-, my only option will be the extended range battery which I'm guessing will be another $3,000. For an electrician to install a 240v charging outlet in my garage will run me at least $2,000 if not more due to location.

So now I'm at about $31,500 and it's still a plastic truck with no radio that can't tow anything useful.

Slate hasn't been completely forthcoming with truthful information also.

The 150 mile battery is actually 90 miles if you follow the 80/20 rule on charging unless you want to destroy your battery within a few years. Add in freezing temperature and your at about 60.

"The Slate is designed to be wrapped". That will run you on average $1,000 from the factory and every 3-5 years you will need to replace it if left outside at a cost of at least $2,000 because you now have the expense of removing the first wrap. So budget about $500 a year to maintain your wrap. And if you don't wrap it you better be prepared to wipe it down monthly with a product like 303 protectant or it will most likely age like a cheap plastic lawn chair left in the sun.

And for me, I would have to rent a real truck to tow my John Deere lawn tractor in for service since combined weight of trailer and mower is 1600 lbs.

And since I keep vehicles about 10 years on average my Slate will be worthless because who is going to buy an EV with a shot battery?

You had a good idea Slate but it's not your time. Unless you embrace lower cost and more reliable LFP batteries to reduce cost and add longevity (like the Chinese did years ago) I doubt you'll make production in this environment. Good luck!

I just ordered my 2025 Velocity Blue Ford Maverick XLT AWD 2.0 Turbo yesterday for a little over 32k and it has a hell of a radio, can tow anything I want and with AWD will not leave me in a ditch or with a dead battery in the cold winter.

Piece Out Slate

Everyone has an…opinion.
thanks for sharing yours and your assumptions.

 

[GaRailroader]

Can the internet just collectively decide already that this is impossible for a lot of things nowadays (and especially for EVs) as the last couple pages of this thread have shown?

The EV tax credit's existence is inherently political and it's an important part of the discussion when politicians have shaped government policy around a power train -- both for and against. Just let it happen and have the mods come down on any posts that get ugly.

Unless this is a warning against blatant red vs blue shouting matches?

I think both parties have failed in this area. Neither party would dare challenge the status quo of big oil and touch their subsidies. As a result of these subsidies, the price of gasoline in the US is artificially cheaper making it more challenging for EVs to compete against ICE vehicles. Instead of the government playing favorites, they should get out of the subsidy business and let everyone feel the real price of everything. The money they are not giving away on subsidies they can return to the taxpayers to pay for the things that cost more because the government is not subsidizing them. The people that are commuting 200 miles per day may realize it makes more sense to move closer to work when gas costs $10-12/gallon. EV's will eventually win and ICE powered vehicles fade away. If they remove the EV subsidies and keep the ICE subsidies the transition is going to take longer and less American companies will survive because they will be that much further behind when they realize that the future is electric and continuing to invest in ICE is a fools errand.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Can the internet just collectively decide already that this is impossible for a lot of things nowadays (and especially for EVs) as the last couple pages of this thread have shown?

The EV tax credit's existence is inherently political and it's an important part of the discussion when politicians have shaped government policy around a power train -- both for and against. Just let it happen and have the mods come down on any posts that get ugly.

Unless this is a warning against blatant red vs blue shouting matches?

Yes. Thank you. Some of my messages on this thread and another like it were deleted by the Slate Forums moderating staff yesterday, as were some of the contrarian messages I was challenging and debating. Some of the posts I made at the beginning of my discussion with this contrarian forum member remains intact, as does some of their messages directed towards me. I noticed in real time, in the middle of these exchanges, that the titles of the message threads in question were amended with the addition of the "WARNING: NO POLITICS" tagline.

I would declare, as you do, that the very existence of EVs are political, much less the tax credits that happen to be in the news right now. EVs truly became political as early as the late 1990s and early 2000s, when the General Motors EV1 was being test marketed in California. To the fear of fossil fuel corporate executives, it became apparent that a commercially viable electric car was possible. and it would become a threat to their business model someday. They ganged up with their political allies and killed it, circa 2003. Most people, including myself, really didn't get the full picture of what happened until 2006, when the decidedly political documentary film Who Killed The Electric Car? was released (original trailer below) . . .



Fast forward to around 2010 and we had the beginnings of (at least for me) several dedicated online electric vehicle forums and blogs. These were all conversational hot spots steeped in politics from the get go. How could they not be? Depending on how moderation was handled in these places, I either left or doubled down to participate further.

I've left some places because there was no moderation at all, with tirades and name-calling so severe in its coarseness that anything shown here yesterday would have been considered light-hearted banter by comparison. And I've also left places where the moderating was so all-encompassing and controlling that normal conversation became next to impossible. In one rather large online EV info-gathering place, for instance, it eventually became known that if you started a message with the word "You" , it would immediately get deleted for being too aggressive and confrontational.

So, moderating in these places is important. There is a Goldilocks "just right" sweet spot in
there someplace and I trust the staff here will eventually find it. They might also want to eventually have an area dedicated to political EV discourse - especially now, opening up the discussion as to how individual states will either incentivize or penalize EV owners - so that people wanting to know only about color-coordinated steering wheel covers are served as easily as someone who wants to know where EV politics are making it harder or easier to own a Slate in the first place.

 

[sodamo]

I have really enjoyed reading much of your tech oriented posts, but geesh, this political rant is getting tiring. Please stop. It doesn’t bring out the best in us. Personally, I’d have no problem cancelling ALL subsidies, especially the people ones.
Let’s all focus on the Slate, its capabilities etc, NOT who is paying for it.

 

[E90400K]

Yes. Thank you. Some of my messages on this thread and another like it were deleted by the Slate Forums moderating staff yesterday, as were some of the contrarian messages I was challenging and debating. Some of the posts I made at the beginning of my discussion with this contrarian forum member remains intact, as does some of their messages directed towards me. I noticed in real time, in the middle of these exchanges, that the titles of the message threads in question were amended with the addition of the "WARNING: NO POLITICS" tagline.

I would declare, as you do, that the very existence of EVs are political, much less the tax credits that happen to be in the news right now. EVs truly became political as early as the late 1990s and early 2000s, when the General Motors EV1 was being test marketed in California. To the fear of fossil fuel corporate executives, it became apparent that a commercially viable electric car was possible. and it would become a threat to their business model someday. They ganged up with their political allies and killed it, circa 2003. Most people, including myself, really didn't get the full picture of what happened until 2006, when the decidedly political documentary film Who Killed The Electric Car? was released (original trailer below) . . .



Fast forward to around 2010 and we had the beginnings of (at least for me) several dedicated online electric vehicle forums and blogs. These were all conversational hot spots steeped in politics from the get go. How could they not be? Depending on how moderation was handled in these places, I either left or doubled down to participate further.

I've left some places because there was no moderation at all, with tirades and name-calling so severe in its coarseness that anything shown here yesterday would have been considered light-hearted banter by comparison. And I've also left places where the moderating was so all-encompassing and controlling that normal conversation became next to impossible. In one rather large online EV info-gathering place, for instance, it eventually became known that if you started a message with the word "You" , it would immediately get deleted for being too aggressive and confrontational.

So, moderating in these places is important. There is a Goldilocks "just right" sweet spot in
there someplace and I trust the staff here will eventually find it. They might also want to eventually have an area dedicated to political EV discourse - especially now, opening up the discussion as to how individual states will either incentivize or penalize EV owners - so that people wanting to know only about color-coordinated steering wheel covers are served as easily as someone who wants to know where EV politics are making it harder or easier to own a Slate in the first place.

But your research on fossil fuel subsidies goes only as deep as a biased website. You keep citing the internet statistic that the US Government subsidizes fossil fuel to the tune of $760B and back the claim from a biased website. What you don't point to is that figure is an estimate that includes elements of the US Defense budget, the concept of environmental damage impacts, and health costs. All of which are intangible cost elements that are simply biased academic theory.

In the other thread on this topic I posted real, unbiased data the Federal Government actually spends on fossil fuel subsidies and renewable energy GFY 2016 - 2022). The real fossil fuel subsidies are around $4B annually and the renewable subsidies are $15B.

The Feds pull in about $35B in fuel tax revenue annually from about 134B gallons of gasoline at 18.4 cents/gal, and 45B gallons of diesel fuel at 24.4 cents/gal.

Your number of $760B in subsidies equals some $5 per gallon. $10 gasoline conveniently tips the scales to EV cost competively when purchase price is calculated into total operating costs for EV. One can then consider the $760B number is possibly backed into by such biased media sites.

 

[cvollers]

Yes. Thank you. Some of my messages on this thread and another like it were deleted by the Slate Forums moderating staff yesterday, as were some of the contrarian messages I was challenging and debating. Some of the posts I made at the beginning of my discussion with this contrarian forum member remains intact, as does some of their messages directed towards me. I noticed in real time, in the middle of these exchanges, that the titles of the message threads in question were amended with the addition of the "WARNING: NO POLITICS" tagline.

I would declare, as you do, that the very existence of EVs are political, much less the tax credits that happen to be in the news right now. EVs truly became political as early as the late 1990s and early 2000s, when the General Motors EV1 was being test marketed in California. To the fear of fossil fuel corporate executives, it became apparent that a commercially viable electric car was possible. and it would become a threat to their business model someday. They ganged up with their political allies and killed it, circa 2003. Most people, including myself, really didn't get the full picture of what happened until 2006, when the decidedly political documentary film Who Killed The Electric Car? was released (original trailer below) . . .



Fast forward to around 2010 and we had the beginnings of (at least for me) several dedicated online electric vehicle forums and blogs. These were all conversational hot spots steeped in politics from the get go. How could they not be? Depending on how moderation was handled in these places, I either left or doubled down to participate further.

I've left some places because there was no moderation at all, with tirades and name-calling so severe in its coarseness that anything shown here yesterday would have been considered light-hearted banter by comparison. And I've also left places where the moderating was so all-encompassing and controlling that normal conversation became next to impossible. In one rather large online EV info-gathering place, for instance, it eventually became known that if you started a message with the word "You" , it would immediately get deleted for being too aggressive and confrontational.

So, moderating in these places is important. There is a Goldilocks "just right" sweet spot in
there someplace and I trust the staff here will eventually find it. They might also want to eventually have an area dedicated to political EV discourse - especially now, opening up the discussion as to how individual states will either incentivize or penalize EV owners - so that people wanting to know only about color-coordinated steering wheel covers are served as easily as someone who wants to know where EV politics are making it harder or easier to own a Slate in the first place.

I think the auto industry in general (both ICE and EV) is inherently political. Simply because the oil industry is such a large, powerful lobbying force in D.C. and (I believe) automobiles are the largest consumer user of oil-derived products (eg. gasoline, motor oil, lubricants). There are a lot of petroleum-based products out there that aren’t automobiles but in terms of everyday use and consumption, cars have to be #1. Any vehicle that is not ICE is a direct threat to the oil industry and therefore will draw the ire of their lobbying efforts. This has nothing to do with red vs. blue states…the entire political establishment is subject to this lobbying. As far as I know, only democratic socialists like Bernie Sanders are pushing these lobbyists (and their Super PAC money) away.

 

[JeffVA]

I think the auto industry in general (both ICE and EV) is inherently political. Simply because the oil industry is such a large, powerful lobbying force in D.C. and (I believe) automobiles are the largest consumer user of oil-derived products (eg. gasoline, motor oil, lubricants). There are a lot of petroleum-based products out there that aren’t automobiles but in terms of everyday use and consumption, cars have to be #1. Any vehicle that is not ICE is a direct threat to the oil industry and therefore will draw the ire of their lobbying efforts. This has nothing to do with red vs. blue states…the entire political establishment is subject to this lobbying. As far as I know, only democratic socialists like Bernie Sanders are pushing these lobbyists (and their Super PAC money) away.

Like it or not, Oil is responsible for our way of life far and beyond the gas you put in your tank. If you watched the Paramount Series "Land Man", they do a great job reminding everyone some of the things that require oil .

Your car tires, the asphalt road you drive on, antihistamines, the lip stick women use, your refrigerator, almost all plastic (including the Slate GFPP composite), artificial heart valves, almost all lubrication of most modern day machinery (including auto manufacturers (EV or ICE), certain types of clothing, kerosene, LP gas, plastic bags, PVC pipe, paint, adhesive, synthetic drugs like aspirin and antibiotics, nitrogen based fertilizer, detergent and soap, paraffin wax, asphalt roofing shingles, Spandex, ink and toner, Teflon, .....

There are probably hundreds of other things crude Oil is used in. If Anyone can't understand why the US views crude Oil as a matter of national security then you have your head up your ass. Nowhere in this list did I mention Gasoline because that is a minute percentage of what crud is used for.

Crude Oil is also necessary in the production of a majority of what a solar panel is made of. It's also required for the production of all windmills. You can't even go GREEN Without Crude Oil.

Don't blame the tax credit for helping to destroy the environment. Eliminate everything I mentioned above and your life as you know it will end. If you Really want to save the environment STOP USING EVERYTHING MENTIONED ABOVE.

EV's can't stand on their own two feet without government welfare incentives to make people want them. Slate is no different. We live in a Free Market Economy which is a foundation of our Capitalist way of life.

Buy a Slate of you want a Slate. Hell, I want one but I'm not paying that much for so little. I actually wish they would build it with a little 1.5l ICE engine, that would be awesome.

Don't use the excuse of buying one to save the environment because if you do your a hypocrite.

 

[Letas]

Like it or not, Oil is responsible for our way of life far and beyond the gas you put in your tank. If you watched the Paramount Series "Land Man", they do a great job reminding everyone some of the things that require oil .

Your car tires, the asphalt road you drive on, antihistamines, the lip stick women use, your refrigerator, almost all plastic (including the Slate GFPP composite), artificial heart valves, almost all lubrication of most modern day machinery (including auto manufacturers (EV or ICE), certain types of clothing, kerosene, LP gas, plastic bags, PVC pipe, paint, adhesive, synthetic drugs like aspirin and antibiotics, nitrogen based fertilizer, detergent and soap, paraffin wax, asphalt roofing shingles, Spandex, ink and toner, Teflon, .....

There are probably hundreds of other things crude Oil is used in. If Anyone can't understand why the US views crude Oil as a matter of national security then you have your head up your ass. Nowhere in this list did I mention Gasoline because that is a minute percentage of what crud is used for.

Crude Oil is also necessary in the production of a majority of what a solar panel is made of. It's also required for the production of all windmills. You can't even go GREEN Without Crude Oil.

Don't blame the tax credit for helping to destroy the environment. Eliminate everything I mentioned above and your life as you know it will end. If you Really want to save the environment STOP USING EVERYTHING MENTIONED ABOVE.

EV's can't stand on their own two feet without government welfare incentives to make people want them. Slate is no different. We live in a Free Market Economy which is a foundation of our Capitalist way of life.

Buy a Slate of you want a Slate. Hell, I want one but I'm not paying that much for so little. I actually wish they would build it with a little 1.5l ICE engine, that would be awesome.

Don't use the excuse of buying one to save the environment because if you do your a hypocrite.

Is the market so propped up because it is important, or so important because it is propped up?

If all the subsidies stopped, I bet we would find alternative solutions for a LOT of these use cases

 

[sodamo]

Willing to admit it or not, everyone on this forum benefits either directly or indirectly from fossil fuel subsidies. Of course people don’t have to be honest about it, but they should at least try to be honest with themselves. Would there be a broad based benefit to EV subsidies? Maybe, but not to same scale.

 

[Kit352]

For me buying a slate is more about simplicity than anything else. Yes cost is a factor but only a small one. Would I pay $40k for a stripped down one? Absolutely not. Keep it under $30k and we can talk, mostly because there aren't many options under that price. I would happily pay a small premium to have crank windows, smaller rims and tires and less junk inside that I will never ever use.

 

[Letas]

Willing to admit it or not, everyone on this forum benefits either directly or indirectly from fossil fuel subsidies. Of course people don’t have to be honest about it, but they should at least try to be honest with themselves. Would there be a broad based benefit to EV subsidies? Maybe, but not to same scale.

For sure. And none of us can control what’s subsidized and what isnt. I guess all we can do is yell at others online 😂

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Like it or not, Oil is responsible for our way of life far and beyond the gas you put in your tank. If you watched the Paramount Series "Land Man", they do a great job reminding everyone some of the things that require oil .

Your car tires, the asphalt road you drive on, antihistamines, the lip stick women use, your refrigerator, almost all plastic (including the Slate GFPP composite), artificial heart valves, almost all lubrication of most modern day machinery (including auto manufacturers (EV or ICE), certain types of clothing, kerosene, LP gas, plastic bags, PVC pipe, paint, adhesive, synthetic drugs like aspirin and antibiotics, nitrogen based fertilizer, detergent and soap, paraffin wax, asphalt roofing shingles, Spandex, ink and toner, Teflon, .....

There are probably hundreds of other things crude Oil is used in. If Anyone can't understand why the US views crude Oil as a matter of national security then you have your head up your ass. Nowhere in this list did I mention Gasoline because that is a minute percentage of what crud is used for.

Crude Oil is also necessary in the production of a majority of what a solar panel is made of. It's also required for the production of all windmills. You can't even go GREEN Without Crude Oil.

Don't blame the tax credit for helping to destroy the environment. Eliminate everything I mentioned above and your life as you know it will end. If you Really want to save the environment STOP USING EVERYTHING MENTIONED ABOVE.

EV's can't stand on their own two feet without government welfare incentives to make people want them. Slate is no different. We live in a Free Market Economy which is a foundation of our Capitalist way of life.

Buy a Slate of you want a Slate. Hell, I want one but I'm not paying that much for so little. I actually wish they would build it with a little 1.5l ICE engine, that would be awesome.

Don't use the excuse of buying one to save the environment because if you do your a hypocrite.

I have to challenge your mention of the alleged veracity of the Landman video clip. A counterargument to that, courtesy of the very entertaining and informative Rollie Williams, is linked below. Draw your own conclusions . . .

 

[zipn]

I didn’t realize they made an ev truck….?

Already have a maverick hybrid truck.. Was looking for a low cost ev for around town trips. The mav tows 4000lbs, has AWD, 4 doors and gets mid 40s mpg around town, the Slate is to compliment it, not replace it.

I maintain the Slate’s real competition is other very low cost EVs like the bolt, ev4, Kona. Anyone looking for an around town EV commuter. Having the open truck bed ( or a topper) is just a nice bonus for utility. I looking for cheap, simple, reliable transportation. Having no infotainmet garbage and plastic body panels is very appealing to me.