Does the current spike in fuel prices increase the appeal of the Slate?

[CorvusCorvax]

Last month the extended service plan on my 2021 BMW has just expired. The dealer now advises that required maintenance will be nearly $3000. And I only have 13,000 miles on the odometer.

OK, that's insanity. Even when labor is $165/hour, what in holy Hell costs $3k a year to merely maintain? Gold-plated cabin filter? Diamond-encrusted oil filters???

The maintenance part is the part that folks forget - I do, mostly because I do all my own. Heck, I do my own brake work (it's not hard, just dirty.) So, for me, maintenance has always been reasonably cheap. But I can see that if you are constantly taking your ride to the dealership to get those basic things done, the costs can quickly escalate. At $3k/yr, the Slate will be paid off, just in maintenance, in 9 years. Well, 10, because there will be some work needed. Brake fluid. Coolant. Gold-plated cabin filter...

 

[JoeBlow-Kokomo]

When you factor in the reduced maintenance costs for an EV on top of fuel savings, you are potentially looking at an additional $6 -10K savings over the span of ownership. Last month the extended service plan on my 2021 BMW has just expired. The dealer now advises that required maintenance will be nearly $3000. And I only have 13,000 miles on the odometer.

WAY more than that potentially. Avg american spends 2-3,000 a year on gasoline based on 12-15,000 miles per year and the mileage you get. Now add in oil changes every 5k. And that's jsut the beginning of maintenance that is mostly not there on ev's.
Would not be hard to save $20,000 vs a gas car in less than 10 years. And they might last 20. It's potentially "life altering" for lots of people struggling to make ends meet. If you can make most of your loan payment on what you would have paid for gasoline and upkeep on an aging bucket how do you NOT? You get a new vehicle with warranty (long warranty on drivetrain) and when its paid off now you can be spending very very little on your transportation. That's a game changer vs what we've got as options now. I'm not in that situation myself but I want to tell everyone I know struggling financially to at least check it out! Not just Slate but any of the next wave of cheap ev's.
I just grew up frugal and can't escape it in my old age. Really tempted by the new Rivian R2. SO nice and the complete opposite of Slate. And twice the cost.

 

[JoeBlow-Kokomo]

OK, that's insanity. Even when labor is $165/hour, what in holy Hell costs $3k a year to merely maintain? Gold-plated cabin filter? Diamond-encrusted oil filters???

The maintenance part is the part that folks forget - I do, mostly because I do all my own. Heck, I do my own brake work (it's not hard, just dirty.) So, for me, maintenance has always been reasonably cheap. But I can see that if you are constantly taking your ride to the dealership to get those basic things done, the costs can quickly escalate. At $3k/yr, the Slate will be paid off, just in maintenance, in 9 years. Well, 10, because there will be some work needed. Brake fluid. Coolant. Gold-plated cabin filter...

5 year old car. Mileage or Time on a lot of new car service schedules now. Thats likely a major service, not ongoing maintenance cost.

 

[CorvusCorvax]

5 year old car. Mileage or Time on a lot of new car service schedules now. Thats likely a major service, not ongoing maintenance cost.

OK, I'll buy that. I guess an expensive maintenance item in some ICEV would be a timing belt. Sure, you have to do it once every 5 years, but it costs a mint. My Porsche requires valve adjustments periodically. It's a fiddly job, and requires some physical flexibility. Some shops just pull the engine to make it easier.

Engine-out work is expensive! Then there's the "while you're in there" temptations with a front-engine car timing belt job - water pump, accessory belts, coolant flush because the pump just came out. Slate won't have any of that stuff.

 

[JoeBlow-Kokomo]

OK, I'll buy that. I guess an expensive maintenance item in some ICEV would be a timing belt. Sure, you have to do it once every 5 years, but it costs a mint. My Porsche requires valve adjustments periodically. It's a fiddly job, and requires some physical flexibility. Some shops just pull the engine to make it easier.

Engine-out work is expensive! Then there's the "while you're in there" temptations with a front-engine car timing belt job - water pump, accessory belts, coolant flush because the pump just came out. Slate won't have any of that stuff.

In a couple of discussions I've started listing the wear/maintenance items typically on an ice car and it's an exhausting list if you keep your vehicles for a long time.

 

[bloo]

Some history from USA Today:

2020: Spirit gets $335 million aid package
During the COVID-19 pandemic, when air travel dropped dramatically, Spirit recieved $334 million in grants and loans from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act (CARES) to cover salaries. By October, the carrier had put nearly 30% of its employees on leave of absence.

February 2022: Frontier tries to buy Spirit
Frontier Airlines announced plans to acquire Spirit, which would have created the fifth-largest airline in the country at the time. In July, Spirit shareholders rejected the offer.

April 2022: JetBlue tries to buy Spirit
JetBlue offered the equivalent of $3.6 billion for the company, but Spirit initially turned it down, saying the U.S. Department of Justice's Antitrust Division would block it. JetBlue came back a few months later with a higher bid, which Spirit accepted.

The DOJ blocked it, saying the merger would result in "higher fares, fewer seats, and harm millions of consumers." [note what Administration was in power in 2022]

Spirit's stock plummeted, but the company said it had no plans to file for bankruptcy.

September 2024: Spirit furloughs pilots
Spirit furloughed 186 pilots in September 2024 and works on reducing its workforce and selling off nearly two dozen older Airbus planes.

November 2024: Spirit files for bankruptcy
Spirit announced it was preparing to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, citing rising operation costs, the failed mergers, increasing debt and high competition. Stock plummeted again.

January 2025: Frontier tries again, Spirit lays off employees
Frontier made a second offer, but Spirit rejected it as the $2.1 billion in stock and cash was less than the first offer and would have required Spirit's creditors to invest $350 million.

July 2025: Spirit announces pilot furloughs
Spirit announces plans to furlough 270 pilots in November. “We are taking necessary steps to ensure we operate as efficiently as possible as part of our efforts to return to profitability,” the company said.

August 2025: Spirit files for bankruptcy again
After restructuring didn't work, Spirit filed for bankruptcy again, reported a net loss of about $246 million from March through mid-June.

September 2025: Spirit cuts flights, announces furloughs
Spirit Airlines filed notices with Florida officials saying the airline would be furloughing 730 flight attendants at three Florida airports in the state, starting Dec. 1. Another 334 were to be furloughed in Atlanta and 64 in Chicago, according to the low-budget airline's mandatory WARN notices.

"This furlough is expected to be temporary," Nick Bartlotta, senior vice-president for Guest Experience and Crew Operations, said in the filings, "however, we are unsure as to the duration."

The carrier also dropped 11 cities from its route map — Albuquerque, New Mexico; Birmingham, Alabama; Boise, Idaho; Chattanooga, Tennessee; Columbia, South Carolina; Oakland, California; Portland, Oregon; Sacramento, California; Salt Lake City; San Diego; and San Jose, California — to refocus on key markets. Frontier Airlines capitalized on Spirit's struggles by announcing 20 new routes including several at Fort Lauderdale and other Spirit hubs.

October 2025: Spirit gets OK for $475 million financing
Spirit announced the bankruptcy court approved financing for $475 million with its existing bondholders. The carrier also reached an agreement with AerCap to reject 27 outstanding aircraft leases and pay Spirit $150 million.

December 2025: Spirit announces pay cuts
Spirit reached an agreement with the Air Line Pilots Association and the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA for pilots and attendants to accept salary reductions. Spirit said as part of the agreement, executives would also be taking cuts.

If any of that sounds like a business that was in good financial heath and only a brief spike in fuel costs starting in mid-March 2026 killed it (in 6-weeks), well maybe there is a business school that can be attended to correct misunderstandings.

Spirit airlines was in rough shape. But a likely DoJ merger block in 2022 didn't strike the killing blow. High fuel prices did. And those are hurting everyone, everywhere.

Diesel fuel prices in Indonesia have risen about 60% since February. About half of the vehicles here run on Diesel. Unfortunately, a lot of hard-working people are really getting hurt by this. Seriously hurt.

More than once the taxi driver we used ran out of credit on his toll pass. Reason: he spent the money on fuel. We had to use someone else's card to open the gate, and pay them cash plus a little extra for the trouble.

Also... many cab drivers can't afford a fillup, so they only do half a tank. This has happened several times while I was a customer. Fun fact... when you put in less fuel you have to fuel more often. The fuel station lines are horrendous because a lot of people have to do this.

EVs are selling like martabak here in Indonesia. Unfortunately, most people are still driving ICE vehicles. Electrics are relatively inexpensive (BYD just opened a factory here). However, trade-in value for most ICE vehicles is in the toilet.

Amazon killed shopping mall in the US, but high fuel prices are killing them here. The chain stores will weather this. Yet increased costs have got independent shops by the short hairs. In the last couple of montgs, some malls here are starting to look as empty as their US counterparts.

My best friend works in an industrial trade center. He does the books for a small company selling electric motors and pneumatic controls for heavy industry. Three months ago business was good. He just got a pay cut and he may lose his job.

We had to help someone else last week. He takes care of his elder mom and dad. He also just got a paycut from his employer. His 70-year-old mom is a fine seamstress. In fact, she fixed several of my pants coz I'm so damn short. She did this in a room without aircon in a tropical country. The aircon broke last month and there was no money to fix. So we bought them a new one. Paid extra for an energy-efficient model because electricity has gone up too.

So please, PLEASE dont tell me only people who failed business school are hurting. Those who are hurt most by this can't afford business school.

Some of these people are my friends.

 

[JoeBlow-Kokomo]

OK, I'll buy that. I guess an expensive maintenance item in some ICEV would be a timing belt. Sure, you have to do it once every 5 years, but it costs a mint. My Porsche requires valve adjustments periodically. It's a fiddly job, and requires some physical flexibility. Some shops just pull the engine to make it easier.

Engine-out work is expensive! Then there's the "while you're in there" temptations with a front-engine car timing belt job - water pump, accessory belts, coolant flush because the pump just came out. Slate won't have any of that stuff.

it will be liquid cooled batteries I'm sure, so still a small pump and radiator somewhere. But yeh huge difference. Heck a brake fluid flush, transmission service, coolant flush and injector cleaning might put a hole in $1,000 these days.

 

[cadblu]

5 year old car. Mileage or Time on a lot of new car service schedules now. Thats likely a major service, not ongoing maintenance cost.

Yes. The onboard computer on BMWs (and most other ICE vehicles for sure) triggers service warnings via a CBS (conditions based service) protocol, meaning it’s both mileage and elapsed time. So if it’s a second vehicle that’s not a daily driver, oil change warnings appear at 12 month intervals even if you only have 800 miles since your last oil change. And all the gongs, warning messages and triangle lights are just plain annoying. What’s worse, you cannot reset the warnings unless you visit the dealer (cost for that) or use o BMW specific coding tool (Bluetooth adapter and app download. Invoking the diagnostics mode gives you the error: “oil reset impossible.” I’m sure others in this community have similar experiences.

The Slate will free us from all this nonsense!

 

[E90400K]

Regurgitating talking points doesn't magically make them true. You're not at liberty to explain because history and facts make that impossible. Last I checked, not one single individual was forced to purchase an EV, nor was that ever seriously discussed. Your comment is, and I am being kind and generous here, hyperbolic. The difference in 2011 was that there were external forces at play that nobody in the U.S. could realistically control. So that makes a direct comparison silly. Again, I am being kind and generous.

Fuel pricing, whatever the reason for that pricing - be it supply issues, demand issues, fuel tax rates - has driven the design of some vehicles for the last 70 years. We here in the U.S. have benefited from relatively good supply and relatively low taxes. This has led to a situation where people can buy 7500lb 3/4-ton dually pickups that never see any sort of real work, and the biggest obstacles faced are curbs at WalMart. 10-12mpg? Who cares? In other parts of the civilized world, fuel and displacement taxes mean that manufacturers build cars that are easy on fuel and have lower displacements. Or cars that don't use hydrocarbon fuel at all.

Fuel availability and pricing absolutely create permanent effects in the marketplace, even when the price fluctuates. I recall a time about six years ago when fuel prices were extremely low. In fact, there was a short period of time when oil was being traded for BELOW $0/bbl. This was a demand-driven anomaly that somehow has created an expectation in some quarters here in the U.S. that fuel prices should be at that level forever. We still feel the ripples of those expectations. This demand for low fuel prices drives all sorts of lasting policy decisions, which can sometimes provide short-term benefits for some folks, but will probably cost us more in the long term (as history has proven time and again.)

I suppose there will always be folks out there who want to believe what they hear out of the mouths of folks who lie for a living. But facts are a stubborn thing.

Slate will be both hurt and helped by the current cost of fuel. Hurt because the plastic body panels are petrochemical products. Hurt because the increased cost of fuel increases the price of everything, everywhere. Helped because people are looking for an alternative to petroleum-fueled vehicles. People like myself who never met a gas or diesel vehicle that didn't have some redeeming quality, like that 1985 Mercedes 190D that was SO SLOW you wanted to get out and push, but just kept going and going and going... Anyway, the Slate will be my first EV. And fuel prices have affected that choice. The higher the price of fuel, the shorter the payback period. It could be that the fuel savings could offset the depreciation, depending on fuel cost and vehicle use. Again, fuel prices (even temporary spikes and dips) can cause long-term effects.

Sorry, I do not regurgitate talking points. My content is my own. So, please don't try that path. LOL.

When I started driving in the late 1970's gasoline had just crossed the $1.00 threshold (thanks to OPEC). It was amusing because President Carter was pushing the US to switch to metric and mechanical gasoline pumps of the era had mechanical limits of 99.9-cents per gallon. So, gas was priced in 1/2-gallons or 1/2 liters, which was REALLY confusing. But the point is $1.00 gasoline in 1978 is $5.00 gasoline in 2026. I'm not sure what the complaint is other than political. I know my income far exceeds my income when I was 16 and ICEV are double efficient than cars of the 1970's and far easier to repair and last at least twice as long (total mileage-wise). And let's not bring up the gas lines of the early 1970's and then again briefly in the mid-to-late 1970's. Based on my personal experience, I find it difficult to complain about much.

So, let's talk dullies. What is it of your business that someone else buys and drives a 7,500-pound pickup truck with dual wheels? There are millions of cars that are driven daily without 4 - 6 passengers and without trunks full of luggage. Who cares? Do you ever complain about those people who drive Lamborghinis, or Ferraris, etc. that have two seats, 2 cubic feet of luggage space and get 12 MPG? I never see anyone on the internet ever complain about exotics that get 12 MPG and can't carry anything more than passenger and an overnight bag.

 

[E90400K]

Yes. The onboard computer on BMWs (and most other ICE vehicles for sure) triggers service warnings via a CBS (conditions based service) protocol, meaning it’s both mileage and elapsed time. So if it’s a second vehicle that’s not a daily driver, oil change warnings appear at 12 month intervals even if you only have 800 miles since your last oil change. And all the gongs, warning messages and triangle lights are just plain annoying. What’s worse, you cannot reset the warnings unless you visit the dealer (cost for that) or use o BMW specific coding tool (Bluetooth adapter and app download. Invoking the diagnostics mode gives you the error: “oil reset impossible.” I’m sure others in this community have similar experiences.

The Slate will free us from all this nonsense!

Hummm. I can't speak to current model year BMWs specifically as I do not own any BMW past MY 2008. But I've had 5 BMWs over the last 37 years and all of them have had a CBS of some sort, even my 1989 E30. My 2006 E90 CBS required a time-based low mileage oil change interval of 24 months rather than 12. I never got a warning for it because I drove that car on average about 25,000 miles annually, but the CBS called for oil changes will beyond 15,000 miles under that use case, which I found environmentally and maintenance cost friendly. I do have a 2008 E86 that I now drive about 1,600 miles a year it does not make any warnings about 12-month oil changes, but it is E46 electrical architecture.

I do, sadly, hangout on Bimmerpost.com (way too much), but of the modern BMWs, I have not read where the newer BMWs require a service visit to a dealer to have the CBS reset. It's possible the newer Bimmers require a BMW scan tool to reset the CBS, but that usually requires just a $50 OBDII cable and usually free software downloads. Most BMWs that I am familiar with can reset the CBS using a series of sequenced button/lever pushes. But again, BMWs go well into 5-digit mileages before they require an oil changes when driven a few thousand miles per month. Now that I'm interested, I will investigate further to see what the modern BMWs require for CBS reset.

My 2022 Bronco resets the oil life monitor without the need for a Ford scan tool. My 2009 Hummer too.

 

[atx_ev]

Fuel costs are usually 20-40% of operating costs for an airline. For a budget airline like Spirit, it's probably on the high end. Aircraft fuel costs have increased 60-80% since the start of the year.
They would have had to increase prices somewhere around 30% to make that up, and that doesn't account for tickets already sold.
30% is likely more than they could get customers to pay. They had neither the margins nor the reserves to be able to absorb basically any of that at all, having just come out of bankruptcy.
Short term? There is no indication of when the increases will end. There is about a 2 month lag in oil getting to the US from the Persian gulf, so even when the ships start moving, the price increase will last at least 2 months longer.
In fact the prices likely will still go up further, as the last ship carrying oil from the area only just docked in California today.

Airlines should be buying futures to hedge increases in price. If they didnt do it, that is on them.

 

[E90400K]

OK, I'll buy that. I guess an expensive maintenance item in some ICEV would be a timing belt. Sure, you have to do it once every 5 years, but it costs a mint. My Porsche requires valve adjustments periodically. It's a fiddly job, and requires some physical flexibility. Some shops just pull the engine to make it easier.

Engine-out work is expensive! Then there's the "while you're in there" temptations with a front-engine car timing belt job - water pump, accessory belts, coolant flush because the pump just came out. Slate won't have any of that stuff.

My BMW E86 Coupe is currently on my lift needing a new coolant reservoir. I've thrown in a new radiator to boot just because aged ones sometimes break trying to separate the hoses. The cooling system deteriorated a bit after 18 years and 124,000 miles. BFD. The E86 is not anywhere near boring to drive. A little bit of DIY maintenance is therapeutic for me.

 

[CorvusCorvax]

Sorry, I do not regurgitate talking points. My content is my own. So, please don't try that path. LOL.

When I started driving in the late 1970's gasoline had just crossed the $1.00 threshold (thanks to OPEC). It was amusing because President Carter was pushing the US to switch to metric and mechanical gasoline pumps of the era had mechanical limits of 99.9-cents per gallon. So, gas was priced in 1/2-gallons or 1/2 liters, which was REALLY confusing. But the point is $1.00 gasoline in 1978 is $5.00 gasoline in 2026. I'm not sure what the complaint is other than political. I know my income far exceeds my income when I was 16 and ICEV are double efficient than cars of the 1970's and far easier to repair and last at least twice as long (total mileage-wise). And let's not bring up the gas lines of the early 1970's and then again briefly in the mid-to-late 1970's. Based on my personal experience, I find it difficult to complain about much.

So, let's talk dullies. What is it of your business that someone else buys and drives a 7,500-pound pickup truck with dual wheels? There are millions of cars that are driven daily without 4 - 6 passengers and without trunks full of luggage. Who cares? Do you ever complain about those people who drive Lamborghinis, or Ferraris, etc. that have two seats, 2 cubic feet of luggage space and get 12 MPG? I never see anyone on the internet ever complain about exotics that get 12 MPG and can't carry anything more than passenger and an overnight bag.

When your talking points sound exactly like talking points that have been thrown down for the last month, I'll just say that you might think you're being original, but you're not. They are tired, and incorrect - misinformation, at best. More like disinformation. Yes, there is a difference.

My point about dualies was obviously missed. This is not a surprise, considering your overall response. Maybe read my post more carefully before constructing another strawman. I do thank you for your second paragraph - it illustrates my point.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

When your talking points sound exactly like talking points that have been thrown down for the last month, I'll just say that you might think you're being original, but you're not. They are tired, and incorrect - misinformation, at best. More like disinformation. Yes, there is a difference.

My point about dualies was obviously missed. This is not a surprise, considering your overall response. Maybe read my post more carefully before constructing another strawman. I do thank you for your second paragraph - it illustrates my point.

I'm looking for something related to the Slate truck in this discussion but can't seem to find it... 🤔

 

[E90400K]

When your talking points sound exactly like talking points that have been thrown down for the last month, I'll just say that you might think you're being original, but you're not. They are tired, and incorrect - misinformation, at best. More like disinformation. Yes, there is a difference.

My point about dualies was obviously missed. This is not a surprise, considering your overall response. Maybe read my post more carefully before constructing another strawman. I do thank you for your second paragraph - it illustrates my point.

The two "points" I made were (1) - I can make an argument that EV were chosen for us", and (2) - we Americans were paying more for gasoline in 2011 than in 2026. Don't be ambiguous, provide a link to where someone else posted the same "talking points". Point (2), I made earlier in this thread.

Point (1) hasn't been made by anyone. You morphed my statement to mean EV were forced on us Americans (i.e. "not one individual was forced to buy an EV"). That is not what I said by any stretch. What I posted was a counter point to bloo's statement, who implied the Iran conflict was a choice "made for us". Meaning a Politician made the choice to start the Iran conflict thus raising fuel costs. I stated I can make an argument that the BEV has been decided by Politicians the world over as part of the "solution" to anthropogenic climate change.

So again, stop with the "talking points" crap, because you think you know something about what I can post but you don't.

Had your posting about Dullies not included the comments about "doing no real work" and "curbs at Walmart", the point you were trying to make about gas prices and engine displacement affecting vehicle design would have been better received. But your statement was obvious and not new, regardless.