AWD! Please!

[RetiredOnPaper]

The right tool for the job.
Why do you want a Pick-up? Should be your first question.
What are your driving conditions?
I need to haul bulky, relatively light loads, on gravel roads, snow, ice, No mountains, some two track. I have owned nearly every flavor of drivetrain out there. For my needs; the best is RWD, with ABS and Traction control, paired with Climate Defender 2 tires. AWD and 4WD are great for getting you going but give you too much confidence which works against you in panic stops. (I think someone is out thee training deer to test you on this.) If you drive on sand, especially beach sand where the surface looks the same but soft and hard spots will get you. Then AWD/4WD is a must.
The biggest mistake I see down south; people treating snow like it's sand.
FWD is nice for winter driving if the driver is not very experienced.
I'm old enough to remember driving in snow on 4 ply tires, RWD no traction control, no ABS, V8...my secret weapon...push button trans. Get it rocking, feel the rhythm, wait for it to bite and go...
If you want a pickup because it is big, loud, intimidating and macho and you have a 5th wheele or big boat or both. God bless you, the right tool. If you live in the city, and just want it to drive to an office job...then I don't know, I'm a biologist, not a psychologist.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

I think you mean "limited slip". No street vehicle that is 2WD has an electronically locking differential.

Modern vehicles with ABS now use the ABS system to mimic a limited slip differential.

The Tacoma TRD Offroad had an electric locker (not LSD, but a nice helical quaife style does pretty well in snow too[what I have in my mr2, I would rate 2wd with LSD to be almost as good as AWD with open diffs]). From the factory, you can only use it in 4lo, but a little wiring makes it work whenever you want. That's why I have direct experience in a pickup that's a similar weight to the slate with 4wd open diffs, 2wd open diff, 4wd rear locked, and 2wd locked. Once I could lock the rear end, I very rarely used 4wd.
That being said, electric lockers are also available aftermarket.
Traction control using the brakes seems to be getting way better, but I was never impressed with it in older vehicles.

 

[Sandman614]

People in here talking about which axles are driven, diffs, lockers etc etc

Completely ignoring the most important part of traction: the 4 round things at each corner. Go buy the right tires for your use case before you try to slap a whole nother motor or differential in the front of your truck.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

People in here talking about which axles are driven, diffs, lockers etc etc

Completely ignoring the most important part of traction: the 4 round things at each corner. Go buy the right tires for your use case before you try to slap a whole nother motor or differential in the front of your truck.

This
Tires are absolutely everything.
That's why my first mod will be a second set of wheels with snow tires. (I'm currently getting blasted with lake effect snow)

 

[Sandman614]

250$

try to join the rest of us in reality

 

[Johnologue]

250$

Not even if the drive unit itself was free.

 

[null98115]

But I can go on any manufactures website and customize my car a whole heck of a lot more than I can customize a Slate. We keep beating this horse but they are missing the mark hugely.

Sounds like Slate is not for you. I recommend you get your deposit back and move on.

 

[Driven5]

250$

You bring up a good point. How much it *should* cost is entirely perception based on how much value it adds to each individual. That's about all I'd pay for it too.

How much it needs to cost, and where that intersects how muc people will pay for it, is another matter all together. Once AWD is officially made available, much like the SUV kit, many of the people clamoring about it now will inevitably be up in arms about it being overpriced and making Slate too expensive (not cheap enough) then. The question in any business is now how many people want something, but how many are actually willing to pay for it?

AWD isn't as cheap on EV's as ICE's. You don't just put a clutched PTO on the FWD trans, with a skinny driveshaft, tiny diff, and thin axles. It's a whole second engine and transmission equivalent in the front. Yet many people will assuredly still be outraged, and subsequently whine here, about how much more it costs than 'adding AWD to a Maverick'. Mark my words.

 

[Letas]

Yeah, but it's still not a need unless you literally are not allowed to drive to Tahoe in a 2WD vehicle, whereas you would if you had 4WD.

Similarly, I don't consider my desire for the extended battery pack a need. I want it because I don't want to charge every 45 minutes if I put my motorcycle in the bed and drive into the mountains. It might be a need if there were places I literally couldn't go due to a lack of charging infrastructure though. For people who won't take long trips or don't mind the frequent charging, you should still be able to make the standard pack work. It's still okay to buy something based on a want. This explains most vehicle purchases - maybe even to a large extent. Just look at all the empty F150s out there.

This thread started as AWD being "mandatory" but it really isn't mandatory for almost every use case.

If a consumer determines it is a requirement for them to purchase something, it is a need, plain and simple. If I am looking to buy a car and I determine I need Apple Carplay, Massaging seats and a Red car, I am going to go online, filter for these requirements, and go from there. I won't even see the other options.

Trying to convince consumers of what their requirements are is silly at best, and a fruitless waste of time at worst.

 

[Driven5]

If a consumer determines it is a requirement for them to purchase something, it is a need, plain and simple. If I am looking to buy a car and I determine I need Apple Carplay, Massaging seats and a Red car, I am going to go online, filter for these requirements, and go from there. I won't even see the other options.

Trying to convince consumers of what their requirements are is silly at best, and a fruitless waste of time at worst.

Educated consumers like you'll find on this site are in the minority, and would generally be shocked at how most people buy cars: Wandering into a dealership brand showroom selected on some whim, with no real product knowledge and little prior thought put into their needs, wants, or finances. Sure they may demand an EV or hybrid because they have a vague notion of what that means... But many have zero idea what AWD even means of does, despite most vehicles on the dealership lot that have it as an option having been profitably ordered with it anyways. The sales person, for better or worse, leads them to their actual purchase from what is available on the lot that day.

Built to order direct to consumer EV brands are better for the consumer when it comes to this, but the consumers themselves are still pretty much the same.

 

[beatle]

If a consumer determines it is a requirement for them to purchase something, it is a need, plain and simple. If I am looking to buy a car and I determine I need Apple Carplay, Massaging seats and a Red car, I am going to go online, filter for these requirements, and go from there. I won't even see the other options.

Trying to convince consumers of what their requirements are is silly at best, and a fruitless waste of time at worst.

Neither I nor Slate is trying to tell you what you want in a future vehicle, I'm just lining up the requirement with a capability. You started by saying, without evidence, that "in some states, legal requirements make owning a non 4wd/awd vehicle a downright pain. California, Utah, Colorado, etc. all have chain control laws that heavily punish 2wd cars."

In reality, like I said earlier, there just aren't many legal hurdles that prevent you from taking a 2WD vehicle with snow tires in most places. Is it a pain to install chains for a few roads a couple times a year? Sure! Just like it's a pain for me to charge every 45 minutes on a road trip. But it's still okay to not want to deal with either of those. It's okay to want and personally require AWD because it's safer and more capable (AWD on snow tires > 2WD on snow tires).

I took issue with the idea that AWD/4WD should be mandatory on a truck, and that's still just not true. A 2WD truck still has plenty of utility and capability for the majority of owners. Again, I do think it's good that Slate is planning to capture the market of potential "4WD-or-bust" owners by offering a truck with two motors in the future.

 

[AZFox]

I really don't get the RWD vs AWD angst... Most want it, many pay for it, and few need it.

Perceived need for AWD far exceeds actual need for AWD.

 

[Letas]

Neither I nor Slate is trying to tell you what you want in a future vehicle, I'm just lining up the requirement with a capability. You started by saying, without evidence, that "in some states, legal requirements make owning a non 4wd/awd vehicle a downright pain. California, Utah, Colorado, etc. all have chain control laws that heavily punish 2wd cars."

In reality, like I said earlier, there just aren't many legal hurdles that prevent you from taking a 2WD vehicle with snow tires in most places. Is it a pain to install chains for a few roads a couple times a year? Sure! Just like it's a pain for me to charge every 45 minutes on a road trip. But it's still okay to not want to deal with either of those. It's okay to want and personally require AWD because it's safer and more capable (AWD on snow tires > 2WD on snow tires).

I took issue with the idea that AWD/4WD should be mandatory on a truck, and that's still just not true. A 2WD truck still has plenty of utility and capability for the majority of owners. Again, I do think it's good that Slate is planning to capture the market of potential "4WD-or-bust" owners by offering a truck with two motors in the future.

This is ridiculous. I said it was a pain, you agree it's a pain, now you're trying to argue it is not impossible. I agree it's not impossible, it is a pain.


I will use a different example, to get away from the AWD topic. Perhaps one that is relevant to many users here who want a light duty truck! Imagine a consumer who does not have residential trash pickup, so every other Saturday they drive to the dump to throw away a dozen bags of trash. That consumer has a Equinox or other midsize SUV with a tow hitch. They could easily go rent a Uhaul trailer for $20 every other week to make this trash run, or even buy a small trailer. But that requires this consumer to hook up the trailer, potentially store it, and deal with a trailer. Would they be better served with a trailer and their SUV? Probably. Would anyone bat an eyelash if they got a truck for this instead? Doubtful.



I'm not going to cite my sources for chain control requirements. They are easy to look up, explicitly defined and well discussed online. I've learned them thoroughly (and witnessed varying levels of enforcement state-to-state. I am not inclined to convince someone of their legitimacy when they do not want to be convinced.



My final point: Slate has two configurations on their front page featuring snow sports. The "Grit and Grind"

as well as the "Snow Dog"

Both snazzy looking vehicles, but woefully uncapable for any dedicated skier, outside of someone frequenting Cascade Mountain in Wisconsin or Mad River in Ohio.

 

[AZFox]

AWD and 4WD are great for getting you going but give you too much confidence which works against you in panic stops.

This is a good point that's often overlooked.

Tires are absolutely everything.

Tires and driver skill.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

This is a good point that's often overlooked.

Tires and driver skill.

Yeah, AWD is absolutely not a replacement for skill. Most of the vehicles I see off stuck off the side of the road in the snow are AWD SUVs. People think that because they can accelerate faster they can just drive normally.

I see people not realizing that with AWD, if you have engine braking or regen, you can have all 4 wheels skidding (I don't mean stopped, all it takes is for the wheels to be going slightly slower than the vehicle) while you're trying to stop, and ABS won't do anything about that.