Being an early adopter - remember Saturn?

[tubes]

Let's talk about what it is like to be an early adopter of a new car brand.

I was an early adopter of a Saturn in 1990. In late 1990, I bought an SL2. It was one of the first 10k Saturns out there. Saturns have some things in common with Slate, and some huge differences. Saturns had plastic panels, although they refused to call them that. Saturns were basic. They were pretty easy to work on. They were cheap. The big difference was being funded by GM, which was ultimately its demise.

Being an early adopter was a pretty interesting experience. The biggest plus was being part of something. You were immediately part of a family. Strangers would greet you, especially if they were Saturn owners too. Although we didn't have great forum software like this site, there was an active Usenet presence, and we traded stories, fun stuff, bad stuff, and tips.

I had to drive a few hundred miles to pick mine up. Fortunately, a dealer ("retailer" as they called them) opened nearby after about 6 months. I remember having 2 recalls. I never had any major work required before I let it go 15 years later at about 150k miles.

Oddly, those very first 1991 Saturns were better built than the next model year 1992. They fiddled with some stuff to reduce noise - a common complaint. That fiddling was poorly executed and resulted in broken motor mounts. My original never had that problem.

I wasn't too nervous about being an early adopter. I liked the concept, and perhaps accepted some of the glitches or ignored them, like the noise. It had a fun 5 speed and zoomed around really easily. The body panels were OK, but some douchebag backed into me in a parking lot and it required repainting at year 3. That paint was done by the dealer, but it was terrible and didn't hold up. Clearly an early adopter problem because they didn't know how to paint and blend non-metal panels.

The Usenet forum was so helpful, and I suspect this will be a hot place here. We had fans, we had detractors, we had smart people who helped you get stuff done. We ultimately mourned the brand in the late 90s when GM tore the heart out. It fizzled away as we saw cars built in Hungary being passed off as Saturns. Oh well. It was a fun ride.

No matter what, I can guaranty you that being an early adopter of a Slate is going to be a hell of a ride. Hopefully fun!

 

[GaRailroader]

Cool. My brother-in-law was an early adopter of the Saturn. He bought it in 1990 thought it was a 1990.5 or 1991 model. His was an SL and didn’t have AC or PS. My wife and I bought a 1992 SL2 with leather and a sunroof. It was a great car though I do seem to recall motor mount issues and power window regulator issues.(One of the reasons I like the manual windows on Slate). Sold it 12 years later with 180k miles and original clutch.

 

[tubes]

Yeah, no joke about the window motors. My Saturn was fine. My Oldsmobile, however, was a piece of crap when it came to power windows.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

I know Maverick is a banned word on this forum, but us early Maverick buyers can give some lessons. In the first year, Maverick forums were filled with seemingly endless horror stories from hybrid owners, and some Ecoboost owners too. Some got a bit irate in their frustration.

Common problems in a totally new model (To quote: Roseanne Roseannadanna - "it's always something")..,

• initial poor availability of spare parts. Some waited months.
• initial poor availability or quality of service (including the shop has not done this repair before). Some Maverick owners were without their trucks for months.
• things that break that take the OEM months to figure out - because they involve a controller (yes Slate has controllers) from suppliers.
• The vehicle just going dark and dead in the middle of the interstate with your family inside (more than once)
• I'm curious about loaners. If your Slate is dead and can't be fixed for months, is that independent Repair Pal guy going to give you a loaner? Unless Slate subsidizes it, I don't think so.

You can probably add a few items to that list if it's a new model from a new automaker.

• They are literally starting a service organization from scratch. There will be friction and stumbles. Does Slate even have regional service advisors (I expect they do, but it's a fair question)?
• In Slate's case, you have no dealer support. You're dealing with independent contractors who may or may not agree to fix problem "x". And unlike dealers, they're not a captive audience. Any Repair Pal location can simply say "nope, Slate doesn't pay enough for that warranty fix - we're not doing it". An OEM dealer can't easily say that. Dealers constantly complain about low reimbursemet for warranty repairs. Slate's gonna have to do fair warranty reimbursement or all the independent shops will tell them to go suck eggs.

Slate won't have the same teething problems as Maverick. But Slate (unless the hand of God reaches down from the heavens) will have some teething problems. Almost any new model without a Toyota badge does. And unlike Ford, you have no local dealer you can yell at. You'll be texting Slate's endlessly polite AI customer agents (just because they give you their name doesn't mean they're human).

I'm hoping none of this materializes, and Slate has an incredibly smooth customer experience. This is just relating what us Maverick guys saw (and what a LOT of BEV owners have seen with all-new models from all-new OEMs).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseanne_Roseannadanna

 

[KevinRS]

I know Maverick is a banned word on this forum, but us early Maverick buyers can give some lessons. In the first year, Maverick forums were filled with seemingly endless horror stories from hybrid owners, and some Ecoboost owners too. Some got a bit irate in their frustration.

Common problems in a totally new model (To quote: Roseanne Roseannadanna - "it's always something")..,

• initial poor availability of spare parts. Some waited months.
• initial poor availability or quality of service (including the shop has not done this repair before). Some Maverick owners were without their trucks for months.
• things that break that take the OEM months to figure out - because they involve a controller (yes Slate has controllers) from suppliers.
• The vehicle just going dark and dead in the middle of the interstate with your family inside (more than once)
• I'm curious about loaners. If your Slate is dead and can't be fixed for months, is that independent Repair Pal guy going to give you a loaner? Unless Slate subsidizes it, I don't think so.

You can probably add a few items to that list if it's a new model from a new automaker.

• They are literally starting a service organization from scratch. There will be friction and stumbles. Does Slate even have regional service advisors (I expect they do, but it's a fair question)?
• In Slate's case, you have no dealer support. You're dealing with independent contractors who may or may not agree to fix problem "x". And unlike dealers, they're not a captive audience. Any Repair Pal location can simply say "nope, Slate doesn't pay enough for that warranty fix - we're not doing it". An OEM dealer can't easily say that. Dealers constantly complain about low reimbursemet for warranty repairs. Slate's gonna have to do fair warranty reimbursement or all the independent shops will tell them to go suck eggs.

Slate won't have the same teething problems as Maverick. But Slate (unless the hand of God reaches down from the heavens) will have some teething problems. Almost any new model without a Toyota badge does. And unlike Ford, you have no local dealer you can yell at. You'll be texting Slate's endlessly polite AI customer agents (just because they give you their name doesn't mean they're human).

I'm hoping none of this materializes, and Slate has an incredibly smooth customer experience. This is just relating what us Maverick guys saw (and what a LOT of BEV owners have seen with all-new models from all-new OEMs).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseanne_Roseannadanna

On thing Slate should have going for it that would mitigate many of these issues is the simplified, designed for access and repairable design. Many newer vehicles are really hard to work on, with some repairs requiring the shop to life the entire body off the frame to get access. Even on older vehicles, changing a stereo often required disassembling the entire dash, and god help you if you need to get to the heater core. What could be in and out well under an hour jobs can take days depending on design.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

>> One thing Slate should have going for it that would mitigate many of these issues is the simplified, designed for access and repairable design

I totally get where you're coming from. Slate has talked the talk for a year now. I'm curious to see if they walk the walk. Do they deliver the glorious ownership experience that so many on here have been evangelizing for the last twelve months?

Let's all hope "yes".

Ford is talking the same talk for their new BEV truck - designed for repair, etc. I'm hoping they walk the walk too. TBD. Talk is cheap.

 

[2thlesswithta2s]

I had a used later model Saturn; I think it was a SL2. I was in a fender bender (not my fault) that damaged a rear quarter-panel. Covered by insurance, but had to be performed by a dealer. The nearest was 90 minutes away. The damage was mostly cosmetic: still drivable, functional, & would have passed state inspection. There was a big horizontal crease where the fender folded & popped back out. If it had been steel panels, the car would have been undrivable. The shop replaced the whole panel.

I liked the non-metal body panels. They were resilient & totally rust-proof. Saturn gave up on then & went with steel a few years before the brand's total demise.

 

[aquaman811]

I worked for Saturn at the retailer level, starting with the ‘91 model year-sales. Then in ‘92-98 I was on the service end. I also owned a ‘95 SW2 5 speed manual for 18 years, the rear rockers rusted out & I had to junk it at 230K+ miles. The original concept, execution, & ownership experience were top notch. It really was a “Different Kind of Company”, until GM beancounters tanked it from ‘96 on.
I also own a ‘22 KIA EV6, First Edition, so I’m familiar with teething issues on a new platform & vehicle

When one becomes an early adopter, the finished product become a testbed for quality issues & repair procedures. That’s a risk I’m definitely willing to take. I had very few issues with the Saturn, a few with the EV6, and yet I’d buy either one in a heartbeat even today. I’m looking forward to my Slate experience & the future of the company.

 

[tubes]

The original concept, execution, & ownership experience were top notch. It really was a “Different Kind of Company”, until GM beancounters tanked it from ‘96 on.
I also own a ‘22 KIA EV6, First Edition, so I’m familiar with teething issues on a new platform & vehicle

When one becomes an early adopter, the finished product become a testbed for quality issues & repair procedures. That’s a risk I’m definitely willing to take. I had very few issues with the Saturn, a few with the EV6, and yet I’d buy either one in a heartbeat even today. I’m looking forward to my Slate experience & the future of the company.

Yeah, exactly. It actually *was* different in the early 90s. Teething problems are expected, and they took care of them. If you are an early adopter, be in for a ride: you are a tester too, like it or not.

Saturn had GM behind them, and they could say "If we go bust, just go to your Pontiac Oldsmobile Chevy dealer for service." I say this slightly sardonically because my wife and I owned an own Olds (Alero 2000) and Pontiac (Vibe 2009). Wife has a Pontiac Vibe, which is really a Toyota, and I get parts at the yoto dealer. Great car, not really a GM, and wide availability of parts. A unicorn.

So WTF is going to happen if Slate has a recall? I don't know, but it will be interesting. Since I'm retired and have a few dollars available (maybe, market just cratered), I might be willing to find out and help be an alpha/beta tester.

Oh, you think you won't be a beta tester if you put down a deposit next June 24? Well, I got news for you. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. You will be. Sorry to break the news. But it isn't all bad. They usually respond really quick for early adopters. You are "special."

 

[sodamo]

Special? We are, we are, we are

 

[tubes]

On thing Slate should have going for it that would mitigate many of these issues is the simplified, designed for access and repairable design. Many newer vehicles are really hard to work on, with some repairs requiring the shop to life the entire body off the frame to get access. Even on older vehicles, changing a stereo often required disassembling the entire dash, and god help you if you need to get to the heater core. What could be in and out well under an hour jobs can take days depending on design.

Yes. But. I think Scooter has a valid point about parts availability.

And there are going to be some things that just are not DYI. Safety recalls of some airbag controller? Some controller buried deep in the battery pack? And so on.

I am looking forward to not having to wade through loads of evap tubes, exhaust sensors and recirculation, intake plumbing, timing belts, valve actuators, and so on just to get to the main player.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

I also have a GREAT alpha adopter story to share. Way back in the 1990s I was the first guy in my state, and one of the first in the USA to take delivery of a Mazda RX7 R1 turbocharged rotary sports car. I was handheld like a favorite child by Mazda corporation.

My water pump dumped the contents of my cooling system on the interstate. They airfreighted a replacement from Japan that night and sent mine back for analysis. Before that, my early neural net engine controller (a very new concept in 1993) was replaced overnight. I mean, they pulled out all the stops.

What I'm saying is that sometimes being the alpha tester is a really good thing, as long as you're patient with hiccups. Because the OEM is leaning forward to get a good quality reputation for a product. So they treat the first few buyers like royalty.

 

[tubes]

I also have a GREAT alpha adopter story to share. Way back in the 1990s I was the first guy in my state, and one of the first in the USA to take delivery of a Mazda RX7 R1 turbocharged rotary sports car. I was handheld like a favorite child by Mazda corporation.

My water pump dumped the contents of my cooling system on the interstate. They airfreighted a replacement from Japan that night and sent mine back for analysis. Before that, my early neural net engine controller (a very new concept in 1993) was replaced overnight. I mean, they pulled out all the stops.

What I'm saying is that sometimes being the alpha tester is a really good thing, as long as you're patient with hiccups. Because the OEM is leaning forward to get a good quality reputation for a product. So they treat the first few buyers like royalty.

Yes, exactly. They did this for a few of the very, very early Saturn buyers too, in some cases just swapping out the car.

But who knows how Slate with treat us? It is going to be interesting, that's for sure.

 

[TPL]

... will have some teething problems. Almost any new model without a Toyota badge does.

And sometimes with Toyota the wheels still fall off.

 

[TPL]

Special? We are, we are, we are

We are in the automotive equivalent of my favorite phase of a new project: before you start doing anything, before there are a bunch of bugs and technical debt.

None of us have had any bad experiences yet with Slate reliability! Zero lemons! Zero manufacturing mistakes! What a time to be alive!