New EV worries

[mikell]

Better check your numbers. 36,000 BTU (3 ton) central air will cool a small home. 80,000 BTU will heat a small home.

Did you mean 3500/8000 BTU ?

No you're in a box with limited insulation going down the road. Windchill. In the summer it's in the sun.

 

[bloo]

No you're in a box with limited insulation going down the road. Windchill. In the summer it's in the sun.

Checked it out - and you're more correct on this than I am. Yet judging how the AC in my Seltos performs, I doubt it's anywhere near 35,000 BTU. The heat isn't much better.

FWIW...I swear the AC in the ancient Suzuki Carry 1.2 I drove in was rated for 2.2kW (about 7500 BTU). For reference, my friend's 200ft² mini-apartment is cooled by a 600-Watt aircon. This is Indonesia.

 

[bloo]

The only thing worse that BEV ultra-haters spewing nonsense on the Web, is BEV ultra-fanboys spewing nonsense on the Web.

Hard disagree.

I'm an EV fanboi, yet my level of of... enthusiasm doesn't approach the FUD and invective from the haters. Just a few examples...

Nobody wants electric vehicles. This chestnut has been making the rounds everywhere. As someone who travels extensively to Asia, I can say without a doubt most people want electric vehicles. BYD just built a huge factory in Indonesia and can't buld them fast enough. Indo is the fourth most populous country on Earth (US is number three). That's a lot of nobodys.

Electric vehicles are so unpopular they need subsidies to compete with ICE. Actually, they need dubsidies to compete with China, who heavily subsidizes EV battery tech. The huge tariffs on Chinese EVs will protect US manufacturers in country. However, lack of government backing puts us at a disadvantage worldwide (see Indonesia, above).

Mainstream media has an interest in promoting a female CEO. Just. Wow. I had no idea Slate's CEO was a woman until after I put in my res. If this is true, the media is doing a shitty job getting the message out. And I don't care how much estrogen the CEO has. It has absolutely no bearing on my buying decision.

Here's a good one from the fringe. Electrification as a means of control. Only the elite will be allowed to travel long distances. The rest of us will be limited to shorter EV ranges.

I won't even get into the climate-science denial BS. XKCD explains it much better than I can.

 

[Dorbiman]

Hard disagree.

I'm an EV fanboi, yet my level of of... enthusiasm doesn't approach the FUD and invective from the haters. Just a few examples...

Nobody wants electric vehicles. This chestnut has been making the rounds everywhere. As someone who travels extensively to Asia, I can say without a doubt most people want electric vehicles. BYD just built a huge factory in Indonesia and can't buld them fast enough. Indo is the fourth most populous country on Earth (US is number three). That's a lot of nobodys.

Electric vehicles are so unpopular they need subsidies to compete with ICE. Actually, they need dubsidies to compete with China, who heavily subsidizes EV battery tech. The huge tariffs on Chinese EVs will protect US manufacturers in country. However, lack of government backing puts us at a disadvantage worldwide (see Indonesia, above).

Mainstream media has an interest in promoting a female CEO. Just. Wow. I had no idea Slate's CEO was a woman until after I put in my res. If this is true, the media is doing a shitty job getting the message out. And I don't care how much estrogen the CEO has. It has absolutely no bearing on my buying decision.

Here's a good one from the fringe. Electrification as a means of control. Only the elite will be allowed to travel long distances. The rest of us will be limited to shorter EV ranges.

I won't even get into the climate-science denial BS. XKCD explains it much better than I can.

The one that I get annoyed at is the sentiment that Chinese EVs (or cars in general) are garbage. A) it's just not true anymore and B) it's willful ignorance.

 

[AKrietzer]

The one that I get annoyed at is the sentiment that Chinese EVs (or cars in general) are garbage. A) it's just not true anymore and B) it's willful ignorance.

I think the issue is US has crash tests, and cars sold here have rules to follow, what is OK to sell in China does not necessarily pass our codes. Are air bags required in China?

 

[Dorbiman]

I think the issue is US has crash tests, and cars sold here have rules to follow, what is OK to sell in China does not necessarily pass our codes. Are air bags required in China?

Yep. These EVs also have to pass crash tests in the EU. The offerings from BYD like the Seal, Dolphin, Atto 3 etc all got 5 star NCAP ratings in the EU.

Also, China has built cars for the US for years now. The Polestar 2, a slew of Volvos, many Buicks, etc.

The only reason more Chinese built cars aren’t sold in the US is because of tariffs.

 

[AKrietzer]

Yep. These EVs also have to pass crash tests in the EU. The offerings from BYD like the Seal, Dolphin, Atto 3 etc all got 5 star NCAP ratings in the EU.

Also, China has built cars for the US for years now. The Polestar 2, a slew of Volvos, many Buicks, etc.

The only reason more Chinese built cars aren’t sold in the US is because of tariffs.

How many Polestar vehicles are sold here? I would like to see and test drive a Byd truck, but there is some reason (besides tarrifs) they are not even trying to sell here.

 

[Dorbiman]

How many Polestar vehicles are sold here? I would like to see and test drive a Byd truck, but there is some reason (besides tarrifs) they are not even trying to sell here.

Quite a few Polestar 2's. I just saw one yesterday! I'm actually considering a used one. They can be had for very reasonable prices right now.

 

[E90400K]

Yep. These EVs also have to pass crash tests in the EU. The offerings from BYD like the Seal, Dolphin, Atto 3 etc all got 5 star NCAP ratings in the EU.

Also, China has built cars for the US for years now. The Polestar 2, a slew of Volvos, many Buicks, etc.

The only reason more Chinese built cars aren’t sold in the US is because of tariffs.

The only reason more American cars aren't sold in China is because of tariffs.

 

[OldGoat]

As a new - first time -;(not yet- ) EV owner what do I need to know about batteries?
For those worried about your EV battery failing STOP. The warranty keeps you going for many years.
Unless….if you are driving 30K + a year, unable to have a home charger, live in a rural area…..probably not a good idea to buy an EV at this time. And freezing weather really does do a number on your range so being able to “top off” at home is important. But I learned in the first winter with my EV that I worried too much for nothing. I could still drive wherever and whenever I wanted since the big majority of my round trips were under 150 miles. If I opt for the shorter range Slate battery, I’ll still be good for most winter driving I do. And envy those of you in warmer winter climates who will enjoy better range. I’ll miss heated seats which allow me to rely less on the vehicle HVAC.

 

[Dorbiman]

The only reason more American cars aren't sold in China is because of tariffs.

I'm not sure I agree, but to each their own.

 

[GaRailroader]

Tesla's charging motto is the ABCs of charging or 'Always Be Charging'. I didn't heed that advice over the 7.25 year life of my Tesla Model 3 and now my battery SOH is 82%. If the battery deteriorated down to less than 70% SOH in the next 9 months then I would be due a warranty replacement. It is unlikely to happen but certainly a 1st world problem to have a 262 mile maximum range instead of the 320 mile range it had when it was new.

I think the lesson learned is that you do more battery degradation on 1 cycle 80% to 20% back to 80% then you do on (3) cycles of 80% to 60% back to 80%. Obviously, on road trips you are not going to be able to do the 80/60 rule but my Tesla probably spends 350 nights per year in my home garage.

 

[KevinRS]

On winter range, a big thing is warm things up before you unplug. It's called preconditioning.
Unless things are really bad out it's going to take a lot more power to heat the battery and cab up than to keep them warm. In fact the battery probably needs little heating once at temp if you are driving, because the internal resistance of the battery generates heat while it's being used.

Seat warmers are supposed to be an option, through heated seat covers, so I'm assuming there will be power wires for that so you just have to put the cover on and snap in a plug.

 

[E90400K]

I'm not sure I agree, but to each their own.

Because tariffs are big news in the media since the current administration took interest in leveling the playing field it is difficult to get the historical information on import tariffs prior to 2024. As I member it, the US tariffs on imported automobiles was generally 2.5%, with the exception of pickups protected by a 25% tariff. IIRC also China's import tariffs on foreign cars in general was 25% prior to 2024.

Yet also, China has numerous business restrictions on foreign corporations selling cars in China. Excerpts below from an April 18, 2018 NPR article summarize the restrictions well.

"For decades, China has been one of the most difficult places to sell a car, and one of the most lucrative.

Nearly 29 million vehicles were sold in China in 2017, according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers. That's 11 million more than what sold in the U.S. last year, according to Wards, an auto data tracking firm.

This week, Chinese officials announced they're planning to relax some rules specifically for electric cars.

Here are some of the barriers that makes selling a car in China problematic.

1. The 50/50 rule
To sell a car in China, companies everyone knows, like Toyota and Volkswagen, have to partner up with Chinese automakers. This means they have to share the cost of owning the plant, the cost of labor and in the profits from the sales. These automakers that are foreign to China cannot own more than 50 percent of a Chinese automaker. China created the policy in the early 1990s to help Chinese companies gain expertise from more technically advanced car companies. China says it will lift its restrictions on new cars that use new kinds of fuels, such as hydrogen, immediately, and electric cars by 2022.

2. Company secrets at risk
American and European automakers that team up with these Chinese carmakers have expressed concern over their intellectual property rights. Carmakers fear that their Chinese partners will steal their trade secrets, especially when it comes to advanced technology such as self-driving cars."

Not really a "to each their own" situation. My position is based on facts.

 

[fuzzyweis]

For the 12v accessory battery, probably the same, maybe a little better as EVs don't need 'cranking amps'. For the traction battery, should be a non-issue.

Early EVs, especially Nissan Leafs had terrible battery management and degraded horribly, especially in the hot environments they were initially sold in(CA, AZ) Once car makes started putting better battery management, cooling/heating/balancing, in the EVs they had much less degredation.

As a general rule though, if they use the nickel manganese cobalt(NMC) chemistry as stated, don't charge to 100% unless you're going on a long trip, generally 80-90% is recommended, and it should be able to be adjusted as most modern EVs have this now. If they go with Lithium Iron(F) Phosphate(LFP) then charging to 100% is less of an issue.

As a fer instance, before it got a new one from a recall, my Chevy Bolt was still getting over 200 miles on it's first NMC battery at 6 years and 80K miles. Those were made by LG Chem which are probably fairly similar to the ones being provided by SK Group to the Slate. I think LFP would be better as they're more sturdy and can be made cheaper, but the first production run is probably already committed to NMC.

-Jim