The ONE thing that I believe could actually cause Slate to fail...

[ScooterAsheville]

I love the enthusiasm, but Slate's main product so far has been hot air.

 

[KevinRS]

In summary- Slate is going to use industry standard parts but somehow produce a vehicle above industry standard? And they will make a software better than every OEM, because every other OEM, big or small, just.... forgot? To make a good one?

@phidauex summed it up best. This is entirely blind speculation right now. And anyone who thinks a brand new vehicle from a brand new manufacture will have less issues than an established OEM has more optimism than me. Building cars is hard. Slate won't just be better because this forum thinks it will be.

Less issues because of the reason for those issues. Most vehicles engines or transmissions have more moving parts than the whole Slate. It does remain to be seen just how good Slate will be, but they do have a chance of even if they do a halfway reasonable job, of building a truck that just "works" and is reliable with few problems, in part because others are building with an order of magnitude or more of parts, mostly custom, and they have to work real hard just to get it good enough to stay on the road.
My Uncle got a new electric truck a year ago, has a great big screen for nav and a bunch of controls. Nav doesn't work, antenna went bad, corroded, so most of the time it shows him being 10s of miles from his actual location. Taking a long time for the dealer to get the part. This seems to be becoming the norm with vehicles now, something goes wrong, it's a dealer only part, dealer doesn't have it in stock, and it's a months long wait to get it. Meanwhile a phone works for nav from anywhere in the truck with no external antenna.

 

[fuzzyweis]

When they had an event here we went, and to see it in person is very different from the stats on the screen. To see it in it's physical form, and it's presence, and the version we saw was just a Slate Gray with the open top kit, and it'll be around $25k. When I told my wife the price they were targeting, as we were standing in front of it, her jaw dropped, for the positive.

We're standing in front of an electric truck that looks like a baby Bronco, that brand new will be $25k. A Bronco starts at $40k, for a 2-door 4 cylinder base model, a Jeep Wrangler starts at $36k, for the 2-door sport base model. A base Chevy Bolt starts at $29,990, that is the cheapest EV on sale today. So for less than the price of the cheapest EV available in the US, you're getting something that can look like something starting at $10k more.

The Slate will be the cheapest EV on sale in the US, it will be one of the few 2-door SUVs available, plus many other variations, everyone has a phone and there's a dock for it right there, they'll probably list JBL bluetooth speakers on the accessories list as a top option, and also the Toyota 4Runner has a JBL flex speaker that is a Premium option! It will have the roll down windows which are cool, they're vinyl records, they're Polaroids, kids today are going to think they're cool.

Just my thoughts on how it will land, folks asking for more can get more, and it'll still be cheaper than a base Wrangler.

-Jim

 

[Letas]

Less issues because of the reason for those issues. Most vehicles engines or transmissions have more moving parts than the whole Slate. It does remain to be seen just how good Slate will be, but they do have a chance of even if they do a halfway reasonable job, of building a truck that just "works" and is reliable with few problems, in part because others are building with an order of magnitude or more of parts, mostly custom, and they have to work real hard just to get it good enough to stay on the road.
My Uncle got a new electric truck a year ago, has a great big screen for nav and a bunch of controls. Nav doesn't work, antenna went bad, corroded, so most of the time it shows him being 10s of miles from his actual location. Taking a long time for the dealer to get the part. This seems to be becoming the norm with vehicles now, something goes wrong, it's a dealer only part, dealer doesn't have it in stock, and it's a months long wait to get it. Meanwhile a phone works for nav from anywhere in the truck with no external antenna.

Let’s unpack this logic…. You know someone who had their nav break, which means it is better to not have a nav unit than potentially have one break?

Isn’t he just at the same starting spot as the Slate? This is just flawed logic from the top down.

 

[bloo]

In summary - Slate is going to use industry standard parts but somehow produce a vehicle above industry standard?

A well-built machine designed with care can be greater than the sum of its parts.

And they will make a software better than every OEM, because every other OEM, big or small, just.... forgot? To make a good one?

They didn't forget. They just don't care. A lot of the buying public wants big trucks. Manufacturers know they'll put up with inflated prices, poor fuel economy, and shoddy workmanship to show off their big truck. The've gotten so big and impractical you can't fit one in a normal-sized garage. And these owners don't care! OEMs don't need to care, either.

 

[IanNubbit]

From my experience designing stationary storage enclosures (big enclosures holding 4-8 MWhs of batteries), the biggest reliability issues tend to be from the small gaps between the off the shelf parts - the integration challenges.

A good example is an issue I'm dealing with right now on a fault in a fire suppression system - the components are all proven, off the shelf stuff, and the issue isn't with the expensive solenoids, or the very expensive battery modules themselves, but in this case, a tiny brass fitting in between, where the sealant is failing for some unknown reason.

I fully expect Slate to have issues like that, and it requires nuance to understand the impact to reliability. A cracked plastic coupler on the coolant system will ground your vehicle as surely as a failed engine, so your impact to that day is the same. But the fitting is $3 and the engine is $5k, so the impact to the company for having to support the warranty repair is far different.

My guess is that the main problems Slate will have will be annoying little integration gonks like that - coolant couplers, wiring harness that rubs in a weird spot, etc., minor QC problems, door bolt that wiggles loose because it wasn't getting enough loctite, or software integration issues between the modules.

The bad news is that early adopters will have to deal with that. The good news is that I don't expect any of them to be truly major. The battery itself is probably the biggest black box here, and they are at least building on a lot of experience at SK.

Maybe this is just my experience, but those are what the big manufacturers deal with today. Harness rubbed through on a stud, fuel like leaking because they didnt cut frame stud from manufacturing, not enough loctite on a coolant outlet flange, radio software not working to properly show the reverse camera.

All of those issues I just mentioned, where on one vehice, all overlapped to a same model year, that model year had been in production either no change in the vehicle for the 4 years it had been out in that time. Each required a recall…

This is why I say, if they do a terrible job at integration and they have bad software, they will be on par with every manufacturer on the road today

Then add in the fact that EVERY vehicle is built EXACTLY the same with NO variance (besides a battery pack that realistically needs no software changes, and with externally be indetical allmost certainly).

Besides human area, bad batches, or assembly machinery failure, each car will come out like the last, and a GREAT thing with this, is it become extremely easy to track failure if they are bin/batch/shift related, which means lower field research, and faster turn around for recals and service bulletins, along with ease of implementation of revisions to the line

Yes they will totally have issues, not a doubt in my mind, but with cheap labor time, parts, and a single, built to be worked on platform, all can be resolved quicker, cheaper, and more efficiently then any other manufacturer in the world. EVERY brand is outtinf out crap these days, mind you multiple Stellantis brands where in the top five of reliability/build quality, I’ll be the first to say that means other brands are doing HORRIBLE these days if they can’t do better then a company that is laughed at for issues

 

[IanNubbit]

That's a pretty big statement about Maverick engines blowing up before 50K in large numbers. Got any numerical (or even anecdotal) evidence behind that? We'd all love to hear the details over on the Maverick forum. I've been a Maverick forum member (and owner) for 3+ years now and I've seen nothing reported like that. And believe you me, Maverick owners raise a stink to the high heavens if their truck so much as hiccups. Major tirades.

A very, very few owners have reported transmission replacements way down the road. In the early years there were plenty of issues with hybrids. But seriously, if you have evidence of large scale Maverick engine replacements before 50K, come on over and share it with us.

There are more than a half million Mavericks on the road now, so I'd expect some percentage to have problems XYZ. Just like I expect the Slate to have some proportion of problems. As a rule, Maverick forum members absolutely love their highly reliable rides.

We have a guy at our shop that only does engine and transmissions. At least 2 mavericks are in that rotation a week, fair point some might be transmissions and not engines, but they are almost all warranty (less then 60k) sure if you want to get into specifics, some are probably at and over 50, so let’s say less then 60k.
I work at a dealer of course I see more issues then a consumer sees, but my point is no vehicle is bulletproof today, and more so, most vehicle struggle at the 6+ years and when they reach 100k. Vehicles hitting 200-300k should be an easy feat these days, but between telling customers maitnance is not needed (10k mile oil changes is s great way to only do 8-9 oil changes before it’s time to get a new engine or serious internal repairs. Lifetime fluids for differentials and transmissions is terrible advice, but their goal is to push it pash warranty) discontinued parts or extremely overpriced compared to the cost of the vehicle ($4k+ radios or gauge clusters is very normal these days not including labor that involve taking half the dash apart to remove) and many more reason, reliable, long lasting transportation is not something rolling off the assembly line in the last decade or more

 

[IanNubbit]

In summary- Slate is going to use industry standard parts but somehow produce a vehicle above industry standard? And they will make a software better than every OEM, because every other OEM, big or small, just.... forgot? To make a good one?

@phidauex summed it up best. This is entirely blind speculation right now. And anyone who thinks a brand new vehicle from a brand new manufacture will have less issues than an established OEM has more optimism than me. Building cars is hard. Slate won't just be better because this forum thinks it will be.

Shocks, control arms, springs, etc aren’t the failures these days, workmanship, bottom barrel components made just enough to function with no durability, and radio/unnecessary feature software are the issues. Also maybe you missed the part I said the parts are from older vehicles, not these over engineered systems built today. We’ve got cars with 5 control arms on them today for “ultimate comfort” yet the ball joint falls off because the pinch bolt was made of weak aluminum with a pressed in alluminum nut to save a few grams and had to get replaced with a simple steel nut and bolt.

 

[IanNubbit]

Less issues because of the reason for those issues. Most vehicles engines or transmissions have more moving parts than the whole Slate. It does remain to be seen just how good Slate will be, but they do have a chance of even if they do a halfway reasonable job, of building a truck that just "works" and is reliable with few problems, in part because others are building with an order of magnitude or more of parts, mostly custom, and they have to work real hard just to get it good enough to stay on the road.
My Uncle got a new electric truck a year ago, has a great big screen for nav and a bunch of controls. Nav doesn't work, antenna went bad, corroded, so most of the time it shows him being 10s of miles from his actual location. Taking a long time for the dealer to get the part. This seems to be becoming the norm with vehicles now, something goes wrong, it's a dealer only part, dealer doesn't have it in stock, and it's a months long wait to get it. Meanwhile a phone works for nav from anywhere in the truck with no external antenna.

This to a T. They don’t have to be flawless, but if they are just as crappy as other brands, they will immediately have a more reliable, longer lasting vehicle. I don’t think people understand the difference between 600 parts on the slate and an (AI) estimated 30,000 parts on a ford maverick…. That’s 29,400 less points of failure…

 

[IanNubbit]

Let’s unpack this logic…. You know someone who had their nav break, which means it is better to not have a nav unit than potentially have one break?

Isn’t he just at the same starting spot as the Slate? This is just flawed logic from the top down.

He’s in the same boat, but spend more then double on the vehicle, likely 5k+ on that radio option alone, and a massive annoyance every time he gets in the truck and stares at broken monolith taking up half the dash, just to have to use his phone.

We can do this all day, I don’t know what you’re trying to get at, but the simple fact is for reliability, there is no argument other vehicles on sale today, have no comparison to what Slate is making

 

[KevinRS]

Let’s unpack this logic…. You know someone who had their nav break, which means it is better to not have a nav unit than potentially have one break?

Isn’t he just at the same starting spot as the Slate? This is just flawed logic from the top down.

No. Not at all. I'd have liked to see how that nav system worked on that objectively huge screen.
He paid a chunk of the price of the truck for that nav system, that doesn't work.
It's an example of the difficulty repairing newer vehicles. Even in warrantee, and only 1 year old. With the Slate, your "screen" breaks, just get any other phone or tablet that will just work. Doesn't have to be an Ipad, it can be a cheap ONN tablet, load it with offline maps to limit data use if you need to.
The integrated complicated electronics systems on these vehicles seem to be the source of half the problems people have with them, and there are a significant number that are not only not DIY repairable, even the dealers can't fix them, and the manufacturers are not sending the dealers replacement parts when the dealer can narrow it down to something to replace. A GPS receiving antenna doesn't strictly need to live in the fin on top of the truck with the radio and cell antennas, since a phone gets plenty of signal inside, but that's the design decision made. Integrate everything. He was also intermittently getting a red onstar light, so the cell antenna was probably bad too.

For other examples, My mother bought a used trax, the screen stopped responding to touch, can't do anything on it. Can change radio between presets with the steering wheel buttons, but 3/4 of those all ended up on the same station when it started glitching. That station changed frequencies, so it's mostly static there now. $700 minimum for an aftermarket replacement.

My 11 year old versa, no infotainment or backup camera, orange LCD display on radio. The LCD apparently doesn't like heat, with age now it only shows when it is cold, like cold mornings before I've driven more than 15 minutes, otherwise it is all black. Not going to bother replacing it.