Driving a rear wheel drive vehicle

[tubes]

I'm no racer or drifter. I don't enjoy oversteer. Although I learned to drive on RWD big iron, most of my life since 1985 has been on front wheel drive or Subaru's AWD system. I know how to deal with the feeling of being on the edge of understeer. Conversely, I've witnessed a few incidents of yahoos spinning out in their RWD drive vehicles.

With the Slate, should I care? Will I notice? That motor is going to biased to the back so I don't have to worry about loading up the bed with sand bags, right?

Seriously, is a switch to RWD a typical concern or a non-event? And with the weight distribution on EVs being so different, does it even matter?

 

[AeroWolf]

It is a nonissue. The Slates even balance prevents many of the old RWD concerns.

 

[Gargamel]

As somebody who drove EMS vehicles for a couple decades, I will say this about getting used to RWD. Go out and test yourself in a safe area. On dry regular roads, this isn't a concern. But when the roads get wet, or more likely for me, a foot or 2 of snow on the ground, you'll quickly find that RWD reacts completely differently than what you're used to. Go learn how the car will react to the conditions and your inputs where the consequences of being wrong are very small.

Whenever I'd get in a truck on a bad snow day, I'd take it across the street to the unplowed abandoned parking lot and throw down a few donuts and long drifts, getting the feel of how easily it would break loose and snap back.

Of course I'm not recommending going out and hotdogging and holliganism on public streets. Be discrete and safe. That little bit of feel and knowledge might save you some day.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

These days it's all about stability control. If you listen to the chassis and suspension engineers, they're carefully tuning those systems so the vehicle behaves politely. You can turn stability control off to hoon around, but in daily use any family vehicle is tuned to be intensely bland and predictable. I don't think the average driver is even aware that the vehicle is constantly applying individual braking when taking curves aggressively.

As an owner of multiple old Ranger RWD trucks, I'm most interested in whether or not the Slate exhibits axle hop. Which will bite you in the ass on a bumpy curve at speed if you're not ready for it (and if you are, you won't be taking bumpy curves at speed).

 

[tubes]

As somebody who drove EMS vehicles for a couple decades, I will say this about getting used to RWD. Go out and test yourself in a safe area. On dry regular roads, this isn't a concern. But when the roads get wet, or more likely for me, a foot or 2 of snow on the ground, you'll quickly find that RWD reacts completely differently than what you're used to. Go learn how the car will react to the conditions and your inputs where the consequences of being wrong are very small.

Thanks.

Snow is rare where I live, and we usually just hunker down, although the few times I did drive in it with my Subaru were awesome.

I'm mostly concerned with typical rainy weather. Your suggestion about practicing somewhere is good and I've done that quite a bit, especially with the Subaru in snow. It is not irresponsible at all to just push it a bit safely to see vehicle limits. The hotdoggers ruin it for everyone.

 

[tubes]

As an owner of multiple old Ranger RWD trucks, I'm most interested in whether or not the Slate exhibits axle hop. Which will bite you in the ass on a bumpy curve at speed if you're not ready for it (and if you are, you won't be taking bumpy curves at speed).

Ah yes. I volunteer at a nonprofit and they have an old 99 Ranger. We don't go much over 20mph on the property. It is all gravel roads, and the brakes are probably not balanced well. I've experienced a bit of that feeling during braking on a curve. But I attribute it to it being a P.O.S. vehicle donated from someone's discard pile.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

>> I've witnessed a few incidents of yahoos spinning out in their RWD drive vehicles

OP, I was unintentionally one of those yahoos in my thirties, way back last century. I was driving a Miata, where you stomp the pedal with abandon, and 140 HP would take their time manifesting. So I decided one day to test drive a C5 Corvette. Coming out of the dealership lot, in slow right turn, I stomped the pedal like I would in the Miata. Of course the rear end came out immediately, the salesman turned white, and I was lucky not to hit anything.

I looked over at the poor guy and said "obviously not the car for me". He was still seeing his life flash before his eyes, and all he could manage was a scared nod of agreement. I cautiously nursed the Corvette back onto the lot, treating the accelerator pedal like it was an eggshell.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

Ah yes. I volunteer at a nonprofit and they have an old 99 Ranger. We don't go much over 20mph on the property. It is all gravel roads, and the brakes are probably not balanced well. I've experienced a bit of that feeling during braking on a curve. But I attribute it to it being a P.O.S. vehicle donated from someone's discard pile.

Yea, I owned multiple Rangers. I'd agree it was a cheep and utilitarian POS, not to be pushed hard in any scenario.

 

[tubes]

>> I've witnessed a few incidents of yahoos spinning out in their RWD drive vehicles

OP, I was unintentionally one of those yahoos in my thirties, way back last century. I was driving a Miata, where you stomp the pedal with abandon, and 140 HP would take their time manifesting. So I decided one day to test drive a C5 Corvette. Coming out of the dealership lot, in slow right turn, I stomped the pedal like I would in the Miata. Of course the rear end came out immediately, the salesman turned white, and I was lucky not to hit anything.

I looked over at the poor guy and said "obviously not the car for me". He was still seeing his life flash before his eyes, and all he could manage was a scared nod of agreement. I cautiously nursed the Corvette back onto the lot, treating the accelerator pedal like it was an eggshell.

LOL! That's exactly what I'm talking about. But the message I'm hearing is the EV balance is different. And of course, ahem, lack of horses under the hood bed. This should not be a problem.

Your story reminded me of the old song "Hot Rod Lincoln" with the lyric "My fenders was clickin' the guardrail posts, The guy beside me was white as a ghost "

 

[E90400K]

I'll just add this. It seems the Slate's weight balance will be at or near 50%/50% front/rear, which is an ideal balance configuration. Story to follow...

For some 38 years now, having driven rear-wheel-drive BMWs, which until the advent of computer-aided driving aids, purposefully designed every one of their sedans and coupes to have near perfect or perfect 50/50 weight balance the driving dynamics are superb for both rain and snow. 50/50 weight balance means the grip at each tire patch is nearly identical which lowers the tendency for the vehicle to rotate around its center mass, because the center of mass is centered between all four tire patches. If the Slate has a near perfect weight balance (Slate has stated as such) then the tendency for the pickup version to rotate either around the front or rear axle will be minimized.

As well understood, traction in inclement weather comes down to tire grip as the primary key to uneventful travel. Second to tire grip is ground clearance when the precipitation is snow.

Story: My last BMW sedan was a 2006 RWD E90 325i. In the winter of 2016 I had not yet bought new tires and was running on a set of Yokohama All-Seasons that were wearing into the tread wear bars. I had a meeting in downtown DC where I was unsure if my 4X4 pickup would fit in the parking garage under the building, with snow predicted to arrive well after the meeting would be concluded, I chose the E90 as my transport. Yup, the snow arrived early and fast. I had no choice as to leave and attempt the trip back to my office in N. Virginia. I chose the route that had the least amount of hills and the most traffic (because those roads would be treated first, and the traffic would tamp down the accumulation). The nearly bald-tired E90 made it back to my office with little event but with a reasonably high pucker-factor on my part - LOL. The point being, even on low-grip tires, the E90's 50/50 weight balance saved the day (along with some good winter driving skills).

Second E90 story... winter of 2020. This time on fresh Michelin Pilot Sport AS4's a winter snow storm came in during the day. I live far outside of DC in the western mountains. Based on the timing I knew most of the roads would be treated if not plowed clear by the time I left for home, 80 miles away. Well, while most of the roads were clear or at least treated, my county tricked me into thinking the mountainous road to my home (shorter way home) was plowed. I could have taken a less direct route that was far more flat and probable to be cleared/treated. The shorter road was plowed about 600 feet in, then it was untreated. With zero choice to try and stop and turn around, grip was good at a steady state, so I "plowed forward". Only until I reached the steepest climb up the last mountain grade I simply just ran out of ground clearance and high-sided on the snow. I left the E90 in the road, blinkers on, and walked the 3-miles to home. Went back with my neighbor Kenny, and dug the E90 out, turned it around and drove back out where I came in from. Went the long way around on the treated/plowed roads. LOL. Again, the point being tire grip, ground clearance, and 50/50 weight balance are the keys to snow travel.

I think the Slate will be fine in both snow and rain. For snow travel I'd get either a dedicated set of winter tires to swap to for winter use or get snow-rated All-terrain tires for year-round use. I'm not sure Slate has indicated the level of assisted driving aids their truck will have. Hopefully traction/stability control at some level. The cold winter testing video seems to indicate it does well in snow.

Apologies for the long winded post.

 

[E90400K]

Yea, I owned multiple Rangers. I'd agree it was a cheep and utilitarian POS, not to be pushed hard in any scenario.

My '87 STX was a beast in the snow. We called it "The Beast" just for that fact. LOL.

 

[GaRailroader]

I'll just add this. It seems the Slate's weight balance will be at or near 50%/50% front/rear, which is an ideal balance configuration. Story to follow...

For some 38 years now, having driven rear-wheel-drive BMWs, which until the advent of computer-aided driving aids, purposefully designed every one of their sedans and coupes to have near perfect or perfect 50/50 weight balance the driving dynamics are superb for both rain and snow. 50/50 weight balance means the grip at each tire patch is nearly identical which lowers the tendency for the vehicle to rotate around its center mass, because the center of mass is centered between all four tire patches. If the Slate has a near perfect weight balance (Slate has stated as such) then the tendency for the pickup version to rotate either around the front or rear axle will be minimized.

As well understood, traction in inclement weather comes down to tire grip as the primary key to uneventful travel. Second to tire grip is ground clearance when the precipitation is snow.

Story: My last BMW sedan was a 2006 RWD E90 325i. In the winter of 2016 I had not yet bought new tires and was running on a set of Yokohama All-Seasons that were wearing into the tread wear bars. I had a meeting in downtown DC where I was unsure if my 4X4 pickup would fit in the parking garage under the building, with snow predicted to arrive well after the meeting would be concluded, I chose the E90 as my transport. Yup, the snow arrived early and fast. I had no choice as to leave and attempt the trip back to my office in N. Virginia. I chose the route that had the least amount of hills and the most traffic (because those roads would be treated first, and the traffic would tamp down the accumulation). The nearly bald-tired E90 made it back to my office with little event but with a reasonably high pucker-factor on my part - LOL. The point being, even on low-grip tires, the E90's 50/50 weight balance saved the day (along with some good winter driving skills).

Second E90 story... winter of 2020. This time on fresh Michelin Pilot Sport AS4's a winter snow storm came in during the day. I live far outside of DC in the western mountains. Based on the timing I knew most of the roads would be treated if not plowed clear by the time I left for home, 80 miles away. Well, while most of the roads were clear or at least treated, my county tricked me into thinking the mountainous road to my home (shorter way home) was plowed. I could have taken a less direct route that was far more flat and probable to be cleared/treated. The shorter road was plowed about 600 feet in, then it was untreated. With zero choice to try and stop and turn around, grip was good at a steady state, so I "plowed forward". Only until I reached the steepest climb up the last mountain grade I simply just ran out of ground clearance and high-sided on the snow. I left the E90 in the road, blinkers on, and walked the 3-miles to home. Went back with my neighbor Kenny, and dug the E90 out, turned it around and drove back out where I came in from. Went the long way around on the treated/plowed roads. LOL. Again, the point being tire grip, ground clearance, and 50/50 weight balance are the keys to snow travel.

I think the Slate will be fine in both snow and rain. For snow travel I'd get either a dedicated set of winter tires to swap to for winter use or get snow-rated All-terrain tires for year-round use. I'm not sure Slate has indicated the level of assisted driving aids their truck will have. Hopefully traction/stability control at some level. The cold winter testing video seems to indicate it does well in snow.

Apologies for the long winded post.

For people that want to get a 2nd set of wheels for snow tires, there should be a glut of stock Slate wheels from all those that upgrade to larger rims/tires.

 

[kvermeer]

For people that want to get a 2nd set of wheels for snow tires, there should be a glut of stock Slate wheels from all those that upgrade to larger rims/tires.

I'm one of those people who want a 2nd set of wheels for snow tires, but I'm also hopeful that Slate can design a better user experience for upgrades than "whoops you wanted alloys? Have these steelies as well, maybe you can sell them online."

 

[metroshot]

As @E90400K said, RWD has been the better for me as well.

I have driven FWD and found them terrible at handling power turns and torque steer around corners.

Thus after many years with BMW (25 years) learning how they manage traction and then now with my current EV RWD, I have to say I love it.

Advanced traction controls on a RWD is amazing on my EV.

Where I live, I don't need AWD or 4WD as we don't see much precipitation or any snow/ice.

With the correct tires, you can get certainly be fine with RWD with snowflake on mountain tires you can drive all year around (albeit with more wear due to higher silica content).

I did that with my RWD BMWs when I was younger and used to ski a lot. Winter tires grip well in light snow using RWD.

Just note that the SLATE factory stock tires will most likely be ECO friendly, Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) tires that excel on range but not designed for off pavement traction or for winter use.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I appreciate all the enthusiasm for rear wheel drive vehicles. I also learned to drive with rear wheel drive, and how to do donuts in snowy parking lots (front wheel drive just isn't the same.) And great tires with aggressive tread patterns help with traction over some slippery surfaces.

But they are no replacement for four wheel drive.

I would very rarely encounter driving a Slate or any other vehicle in rock-strewn muddy trails, just like so many others. That and Slate is not building this platform for that purpose.

For winter snow, slush & icy road conditions, I fully expect the Slate will perform as well as any other car out there on the road.

And let's not forget tire chains & cables for the heavy stuff. Maybe those will find their way into the Slate accessory market and even a Slate University video.