how many 2 door pickups of any kind are sold each year?

[Sparkie]

You really want to ask, "how many truly appealing small trucks with two doors are being sold in the USA each year". The answer is none. Because nobody builds small trucks in the USA, let alone appealing small trucks.

But a good bit of information might be the two door Bronco. Everyone sneered at it, but the two door Bronco generates pretty decent sales (see AI search graphic at bottom)

I owned multiple two-door Rangers. It was a crude, basic, thirty-year old platform with zero meaningful updates. I would argue that nobody has sold an appealing small two door pickup truck in several decades. So I suggest that the Slate will be the first real test. The problem with the Slate is that it's not appealing for large numbers of people for any number of reason (they dislike BEVs, they want their amenities, and so on). So even the Slate won't fully test whether or not enough buyers want want a smaller two door pickup.

I argue there are more buyers out there than the product planners and media credit. But my opinion doesn't matter, because I'm not the CEO who has to pony up $1.5 billion to design, engineer, test, and manufacture a truly small two-door pickup. Happily, Slate stepped up to the plate for us. They're still not the mass-market test that would truly answer the question, but if they sell 100,000+, then we know all the market know-it-alls out there got it wrong (but maybe they actually got it right).

BTW, I'm not sure people really understand the automotive industry all that well. It's an industry that rewards production scale. To truly make money and amortize that $700,000,000 invested so far, Slate is going to have to build at scale, consistently, for many years. So seeing them move 100,000 trucks in the first year is nice - but doesn't answer the question of whether they'll survive as a franchise. Can they sell 100,000+ trucks EVERY year is the question. The standard of the industry is that a factory loses money until it reaches 80% capacity. After that it mints money. But it has to keep minting money, because it takes multiple years to amortize the capital investment.

I have a very nicely equipped two-door Bronco.
I had to special order it in 2024.
And it cost less than a less equipped four-door Bronco.

But it was a struggle to find a dealership that still had available allocations (that's the finite number of each model that Ford allows the dealership to buy). And that dealership's management was very unhappy that I refused to buy any of their many 4 door Broncos they had on their lot. My salesman understood me. We couldn't continue the process until I explained to his manager's manager that I'm fine waiting 3 months or longer while they had my $1000 non-refundable deposit.

So, as you, @sodamo , @E90400K , and others have been describing, it is the dealerships that determine/fix today's automotive market. It's the nature of how dealerships make money -- only show customers the most expensive cars on your lot.

Slate Auto is skipping over that with direct sales. I am happy that is their plan.

 

[AZFox]

I wanted to buy one big time. However, no dealers stocked one on their lot to test drive with the manual transmission. I was told by every dealership that I'd have to order one was the only way I would be able to test drive it.

Around a quarter-century ago I special-ordered a compact sedan with all of the options and a manual transmission. Special order was absolutely necessary for that unique configuration.

Simple solution for the test-drive dilemma: test-drive the automatic an use your imagination.

 

[AZFox]

Chicken or the egg! Are they not produced because they don't sell, or they don't sell because they aren't produced...

IMHO for small, economical, and reliable 2-door trucks it's the latter.

It's not like its a new thing- manual cars, or 2 door pickups. They've existed for decades, but are going away. Surely if the market was as big as the internet claims, one company would capture it. They want to make money, right?

Is it possible that making more money is the reason such things are NOT offered. I think so.

Search the site for "Chicken Tax" and "CAFE Standards" to gain some insight about Regulatory Capture that got us to where we are.

 

[Letas]

IMHO for small, economical, and reliable 2-door trucks it's the latter.



Is it possible that making more money is the reason such things are NOT offered. I think so.

Search the site for "Chicken Tax" and "CAFE Standards" to gain some insight about Regulatory Capture that got us to where we are.

I guess where I struggle with this is Chevy, ford, Toyota, and I’m assuming more, all make a 2 door pickup. And they sell it in the USA. Granted, the slate is closer to a Hilux (not sold in the US) than a 2 door Tacoma, but you still just don’t see 2 door pickups, outside of fleets.

If they were truly in demand, why wouldn’t one of these existing OEMs ramp production on them and capitalize this market we keep claiming exists online?

 

[sodamo]

I guess where I struggle with this is Chevy, ford, Toyota, and I’m assuming more, all make a 2 door pickup. And they sell it in the USA. Granted, the slate is closer to a Hilux (not sold in the US) than a 2 door Tacoma, but you still just don’t see 2 door pickups, outside of fleets.

If they were truly in demand, why wouldn’t one of these existing OEMs ramp production on them and capitalize this market we keep claiming exists online?

Because the choice isn’t sale vs no sale, it’s less profitable sale vs more profitable sale. More and more people seek immediate gratification and will rationalize spending more instead of delay.

 

[atx_ev]

I guess where I struggle with this is Chevy, ford, Toyota, and I’m assuming more, all make a 2 door pickup. And they sell it in the USA. Granted, the slate is closer to a Hilux (not sold in the US) than a 2 door Tacoma, but you still just don’t see 2 door pickups, outside of fleets.

If they were truly in demand, why wouldn’t one of these existing OEMs ramp production on them and capitalize this market we keep claiming exists online?

One theory is that dealers stock the highest priced items that they can sell

If there are 25k, 35k, and 45k options and they are limited via quota to 40 vehicles, they will tend to stock the 35k and 45k options.

People that want to pay less are forced to buy used.

 

[hbuck]

I have a very nicely equipped two-door Bronco.
I had to special order it in 2024.
And it cost less than a less equipped four-door Bronco.

But it was a struggle to find a dealership that still had available allocations (that's the finite number of each model that Ford allows the dealership to buy). And that dealership's management was very unhappy that I refused to buy any of their many 4 door Broncos they had on their lot. My salesman understood me. We couldn't continue the process until I explained to his manager's manager that I'm fine waiting 3 months or longer while they had my $1000 non-refundable deposit.

So, as you, @sodamo , @E90400K , and others have been describing, it is the dealerships that determine/fix today's automotive market. It's the nature of how dealerships make money -- only show customers the most expensive cars on your lot.

Slate Auto is skipping over that with direct sales. I am happy that is their plan.

I think the new stream will be the parts, changing out the look delivered to your door by Amazon. Until they see a profit, the tax laws will help them along for the first few years.

 

[E90400K]

Around a quarter-century ago I special-ordered a compact sedan with all of the options and a manual transmission. Special order was absolutely necessary for that unique configuration.

Simple solution for the test-drive dilemma: test-drive the automatic an use your imagination.

Not in my enthusiast blood to use my imagination. A manual transmission car drives completely different than the automatic transmission version.

The recent example was the purchase of my '22 Bronco. Months before sales started Ford had a pre-production US tour of several different models of the Bronco. One model was a 2-door Black Diamond w/manual. It was the exact configuration I had reserved. So, at least I got to test fit it and move the gear lever around.

Later in 2021 Ford sent production "mannequins" to dealerships so people who had Broncos on order or had a reservation for a production slot could test drive a Bronco. My dealer got a 2.3L EcoBoost 4-door automatic Wildtrack. It drove nowhere close to my liking. I hate ICEV automatic transmissions. My order slot got delayed in mid-2021, so after the mannequin test drive I was going to cancel my reservation. But I decided to wait.

Key to my purchase was a real test drive of the configuration I ordered (2-door, manual). The test drive only came when my Bronco finally arrived. The initial test drive did not win me over but didn't completely turn me off either. I had to wait a few days to take delivery, so after a few days, the second test drive won me over enogh and I left with the Bronco. I was still on the fence a bit, but Broncos were so hot in 2022, I could have sold it for more than I bought it, so there was no risk.

Long story, but for me I can't buy a vehicle sight unseen and not test driven in my desired configuration. I won't imagine how the Slate drives, I'll need to test drive it, or a 5-day/100-mile buy back to negate the financial risk.

 

[danielt1263]

how many 2 door pickups of any kind are sold each year?

All of them.

One person asked if they are in such demand, why don't dealerships carry them? The answer is profit margin. A 2 door takes up a parking space just like a 4 door, but doesn't net the dealership as much money.

 

[AZFox]

If they were truly in demand, why wouldn’t one of these existing OEMs ramp production on them and capitalize this market we keep claiming exists online?

Because they think they can make more money by keeping that choice out of reach.

Edit: better wording

 

[Sparkie]

All of them.

One person asked if they are in such demand, why don't dealerships carry them? The answer is profit margin. A 2 door takes up a parking space just like a 4 door, but doesn't net the dealership as much money.

^^^ So true! ^^^

When my 2 door manual transmission Bronco arrived at the dealership, they were willing to return my non-refundable deposit if the Bronco did not satisfy my expectation. I laughed and asked my salesman "Are you serious?" He replied "I'm just doing what my manager told me".

I learned they had multiple back-up offers for my Bronco. All of them were willing to pay thousands more in dealer markups.

 

[Letas]

^^^ So true! ^^^

When my 2 door manual transmission Bronco arrived at the dealership, they were willing to return my non-refundable deposit if the Bronco did not satisfy my expectation. I laughed and asked my salesman "Are you serious?" He replied "I'm just doing what my manager told me".

I learned they had multiple back-up offers for my Bronco. All of them were willing to pay thousands more in dealer markups.

So by that logic… why did the dealer not stock more manuals? Surely the dealers and OEMs see something we don’t….

 

[Luxrage]

A major appeal of the Slate is that it's a small 2-door pickup - never mind that it's electric or modular. 4-door pickups are effectively lifted sedans without a trunk lid.

This, I'd probably still be interested in the Slate even if was some weird ICE and got 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene.

Years ago my mom wanted a fleet spec F150 2WD 2-door and was only able to find one in a color because it was a mis-order by a local dealer.

 

[Sparkie]

So by that logic… why did the dealer not stock more manuals? Surely the dealers and OEMs see something we don’t….

Dealerships try to convince people walking on their lot that they can "instantly own" what they see in front of them.
And as the sales manager made clear to me: "It is easier to immediately sell an automatic to an experienced manual driver than the other way around."
Likewise, I believe dealers want to "up sell" two-door shoppers into a four-door model by matching the customer's monthly budget (albeit for a longer loan period).

Footnote: My 2024 Bronco was one of the last two-doors loaded with all the "toys" I wanted.
Starting in 2025, Ford only put those "toys" on the more expensive four-door.

(And yes, I am a dinosaur that loves driving stick shift. I would rather drive an EV than an automatic.)

 

[Letas]

Dealerships try to convince people walking on their lot that they can "instantly own" what they see in front of them.
And as the sales manager made clear to me: "It is easier to immediately sell an automatic to an experienced manual driver than the other way around."
Likewise, I believe dealers want to "up sell" two-door shoppers into a four-door model by matching the customer's monthly budget (albeit for a longer loan period).

Footnote: My 2024 Bronco was one of the last two-doors loaded with all the "toys" I wanted.
Starting in 2025, Ford only put those "toys" on the more expensive four-door.

(And yes, I am a dinosaur that loves driving stick shift. I would rather drive an EV than an automatic.)

Great, now let’s go a step further and ask why dealers aren’t pre-ordering manuals so customers can instantly own them.

If you told the GM of any dealership that they could stock a car, say one a month (or whatever frequency we choose), and it will sell instantly, albeit for a smaller profit- do you think any smart businessman would say no?
Profit is profit, and guaranteed profit is better than aged inventory.

If the demand was truly there, for real buyers, not keyboard “buyers”- you’d see 2 door trucks on every lot.

Sedans are the most recent car to die. I bought one 4 years ago. Had my pickings on what I wanted and what deal I wanted, because nobody bought them. Give it 15 years and people will be saying “dealerships killed the sedan”, not the consumer