how many 2 door pickups of any kind are sold each year?

[atx_ev]

You want to know if there's demand for small, 2 door trucks?

Remember when the internet lost their collective mind because the $10,000 Toyota IMV 0 isn't available in the US due to chicken tax?

God knows I'd buy one if I could, but I'm not waiting 25 years from now.

the philosophy of that truck is the same as the slate. US requires all kinds of extra safety features which bump the price from 10K. ABS, backup camera, airbags, etc.

 

[E90400K]

Thank you for the comparisons.
In truth, I am getting 3.5 mpg better than the EPA estimates on my 2 door Bronco.

Additionally, the manual transmission costs nearly $1,500 less to buy.
So I saved $$ at the start and continue to save $$ at the pump.
However, I understand an MT is not for everyone.

Over the last 10 years, I have observed that people simply don't enjoy driving a car.
When stopped at a red light, I watch all the people around me that are so bored with the task of driving a car.
In less than 3 seconds, they are lifting their phones and scrolling.

Yup, I'm the same, my Black Diamond has averaged 21.6 MPG lifetime over the 13,400 miles I've driven it since I bought it new in 2022. I keep records of all my refueling events, so my number is very accurate. An amazing ICEV in my opinion.

Let's hope the Slate meets or betters the EPA range projections.

 

[E90400K]

the philosophy of that truck is the same as the slate. US requires all kinds of extra safety features which bump the price from 10K. ABS, backup camera, airbags, etc.

Exactly, and I will add that a 25% tariff would add just $2,500 to the $10K MSRP. The reason the Toyota is not sold in the US is because, like the Suzuki Jimny, there is not enough sales volume for a small, low content, utilitarian vehicle in the US to make it worth the effort to Federalize it for the US market.

 

[atx_ev]

Exactly, and I will add that a 25% tariff would add just $2,500 to the $10K MSRP. The reason the Toyota is not sold in the US is because, like the Suzuki Jimny, there is not enough sales volume for a small, low content, utilitarian vehicle in the US to make it worth the effort to Federalize it for the US market.

the hilux champ is called the stout in peru. It is 20K because of VAT(18% and 6-10% of tariffs) those would be comparable to the chicken tax. Peru doesnt have all the safety requirements that the US has like airbags, abs, backup cameras, lane departure etc.

The biggest issue is cafe standards, emissions, and sales taxes. The stout doesnt meet the gas mileage standards and would need upgraded emissions as well. Would all of that add 5-10K so that it would need to sell for 25k or even 30k in the US?

I think it could easily be 30k+ and that is why toyota doesnt try to sell it here. Especially since it would cannibalize existing tacoma sales. Once the slate exists, then I suspect all truck manufacturers will start to put out a smaller EV truck (cafe doesnt apply) because the slate will start pull the bottom of the market away from larger/expensive trucks.

this is what AI says:

Rough Cost Composition: What It Might Look Like

Here’s how the numbers could stack up based on Jalonpnik’s scenario:

Item	Estimated Cost (USD)
Base Price (Thailand)	~$14,000
Chicken Tax (~25%)	+$3,500
Additional Tariffs (~12%)	+$1,680
Shipping & Import Fees	+$3,000–$7,000
Compliance Modifications	+$2,000–$10,000 (variable)
Estimated U.S. Selling Price	~$24,000–$35,000+

 

[Letas]

the hilux champ is called the stout in peru. It is 20K because of VAT(18% and 6-10% of tariffs) those would be comparable to the chicken tax. Peru doesnt have all the safety requirements that the US has like airbags, abs, backup cameras, lane departure etc.

The biggest issue is cafe standards, emissions, and sales taxes. The stout doesnt meet the gas mileage standards and would need upgraded emissions as well. Would all of that add 5-10K so that it would need to sell for 25k or even 30k in the US?

I think it could easily be 30k+ and that is why toyota doesnt try to sell it here. Especially since it would cannibalize existing tacoma sales. Once the slate exists, then I suspect all truck manufacturers will start to put out a smaller EV truck (cafe doesnt apply) because the slate will start pull the bottom of the market away from larger/expensive trucks.

this is what AI says:

Rough Cost Composition: What It Might Look Like

Here’s how the numbers could stack up based on Jalonpnik’s scenario:

Item	Estimated Cost (USD)
Base Price (Thailand)	~$14,000
Chicken Tax (~25%)	+$3,500
Additional Tariffs (~12%)	+$1,680
Shipping & Import Fees	+$3,000–$7,000
Compliance Modifications	+$2,000–$10,000 (variable)
Estimated U.S. Selling Price	~$24,000–$35,000+

This would hold true, if CAFE existed anymore in the USA. It is, for all intents and purposes, dead.

 

[E90400K]

the hilux champ is called the stout in peru. It is 20K because of VAT(18% and 6-10% of tariffs) those would be comparable to the chicken tax. Peru doesnt have all the safety requirements that the US has like airbags, abs, backup cameras, lane departure etc.

The biggest issue is cafe standards, emissions, and sales taxes. The stout doesnt meet the gas mileage standards and would need upgraded emissions as well. Would all of that add 5-10K so that it would need to sell for 25k or even 30k in the US?

I think it could easily be 30k+ and that is why toyota doesnt try to sell it here. Especially since it would cannibalize existing tacoma sales. Once the slate exists, then I suspect all truck manufacturers will start to put out a smaller EV truck (cafe doesnt apply) because the slate will start pull the bottom of the market away from larger/expensive trucks.

this is what AI says:

Rough Cost Composition: What It Might Look Like

Here’s how the numbers could stack up based on Jalonpnik’s scenario:

Item	Estimated Cost (USD)
Base Price (Thailand)	~$14,000
Chicken Tax (~25%)	+$3,500
Additional Tariffs (~12%)	+$1,680
Shipping & Import Fees	+$3,000–$7,000
Compliance Modifications	+$2,000–$10,000 (variable)
Estimated U.S. Selling Price	~$24,000–$35,000+

Evidence Toyota never intended it for the US market. It's intended for lower GDP countries than the US. So the "internet" getting all bent out of shape really never was a thing.

 

[AZFox]

Vehicles like this have been kept out of reach deliberately.

The Slate Truck is disrupting a status quo.

 

[Letas]

Vehicles like this have been kept out of reach deliberately.

The Slate Truck is disrupting a status quo.

Now make it $12k and we will have a real disruption!

 

[Susan]

Vehicles like this have been kept out of reach deliberately.

The Slate Truck is disrupting a status quo.

I love that Slate is doing this. And I'm very glad that they're going for a 5 star safety rating.

 

[KevinRS]

Manufacturers can't necessarily just ignore the CAFE standards just because the current administration has said they will not enforce by charging fines. That leaves the standard in place, and the next administration can just as easily say that they are going back to enforcing those rules that never left the books, meaning those companies that put money and time into ignoring them have to stop on a dime and go back to following the rules, which might cost more than they made in the interim by ignoring them.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

Admin - this is not intended to be political. But I do bring up tariff negotiations with the EU in what I hope is an apolitical manner.

I'm really interested in a single line in the published statement from the EU and USA about the state of tariff negotiations. There is an already-famous line in that statement that says the EU and USA will mutually recognize each other's safety and emissions regulations. What can be sold in the EU can be sold in the USA, and vice versa.

Think about that for a second. Every cheap BEV in the EU, and there are many, can suddenly be sold in the USA. Sure, with a tariff of some sort. But this could potentially make tons of new models available to US buyers.

Mind you, they are in the negotiating stage. That line might be excised before a final agreement is in place. But imagine you can suddenly purchase 100+ new affordable EU BEV models from existing US dealerships...

It makes me wonder about Chinese vehicles. Chinese manufacturers are setting up factories in the EU now. Will those be allowed in?

And I wonder if the 25% small truck "chicken tax" will survive these negotiations? It's a really interesting negotiation with huge implications for US buyers.

 

[Letas]

Manufacturers can't necessarily just ignore the CAFE standards just because the current administration has said they will not enforce by charging fines. That leaves the standard in place, and the next administration can just as easily say that they are going back to enforcing those rules that never left the books, meaning those companies that put money and time into ignoring them have to stop on a dime and go back to following the rules, which might cost more than they made in the interim by ignoring them.

Toyota is already producing these cars- put them on a boat and send them over!
Also, the fine is negligible. $17 for every 1/10 of a mile missed on MPG ratings.
Miss CAFE standards by 10MPG? Add $1700 to the car. Even missing by 20 MPG would be under $3500 in fines.
Do you really think a consumer wouldn't pay $3500 more on a ~$12k vehicle?

Or is CAFE just a scapegoat for the entire situation.

 

[KevinRS]

Toyota is already producing these cars- put them on a boat and send them over!
Also, the fine is negligible. $17 for every 1/10 of a mile missed on MPG ratings.
Miss CAFE standards by 10MPG? Add $1700 to the car. Even missing by 20 MPG would be under $3500 in fines.
Do you really think a consumer wouldn't pay $3500 more on a ~$12k vehicle?

Or is CAFE just a scapegoat for the entire situation.

On the vehicles made for Asia, it's a lot more than just CAFE, a lot of it is safety regulations. Frame and body might have to be reworked, with crumple zones, airbags added, etc. Then it would have to go through testing.
Just like you can't import a cybertruck to Europe because those sharp corners at the front instead of the rounded ones regulations require mean it's a lot more deadly vs pedestrians.

 

[sodamo]

Toyota is already producing these cars- put them on a boat and send them over!
Also, the fine is negligible. $17 for every 1/10 of a mile missed on MPG ratings.
Miss CAFE standards by 10MPG? Add $1700 to the car. Even missing by 20 MPG would be under $3500 in fines.
Do you really think a consumer wouldn't pay $3500 more on a ~$12k vehicle?

Or is CAFE just a scapegoat for the entire situation.

and how much would stealership bottomline be affected? Too much, I suspect. Sadly they no longer prefer to sell inexpensive, reliable, cheap to repair.

 

[Letas]

and how much would stealership bottomline be affected? Too much, I suspect. Sadly they no longer prefer to sell inexpensive, reliable, cheap to repair.

The goalposts move continuously....