This is the small truck Tesla should have produced...

[cadblu]

In true Tesla fashion they produced a way overpriced and over-hyped Cybertruck. They are now sitting out in Tesla dealer and service centers all over the country. But I still won't rule out that Tesla is secretly developing a small, sub $30K truck behind the scenes to compete with Slate. They are already working on a budget Model Y that will also be in this price range. Stay tuned, this budget EV truck thing is going to get very busy in the coming 12 months!

 

[P99Guy]

I second that!

 

[E90400K]

I still see difficulty with mass market acceptance of this type of vehicle. If the core target audience is lower economic (hourly) wage earners and young people starting out in life who want an affordable, warranty-carrying new car, I see the Slate's slow DCFC rate as an issue. The target audience mentioned above are usually not private homeowners who can have access to private overnight charging. 30 minutes to 80% SOC is just 120 miles of non-winter range. Another 30 minutes needed for the remaining 60 miles of range might be a deterrent to market acceptance. Usable range is really just 30 to 120 miles (90 miles) per 30 min. DCFC. Fine if you charge at home, not so good if you live off of public DCFC.

It's a tough business model to rely on the $7,500 tax rebate being (a) still in existence in 2027, and (b) applicable to wage earners who earn enough to pay $7,500 in income tax (to get it back as a max rebate), and (c) a 140,000 in annual unit sales to get the cost of production to hit the pre-rebate price of $27,000.

At a $27K price point, the 4-door Maverick hybrid XL is a far better choice.

 

[ucfknights123]

I still see difficulty with mass market acceptance of this type of vehicle. If the core target audience is lower economic (hourly) wage earners and young people starting out in life who want an affordable, warranty-carrying new car, I see the Slate's slow DCFC rate as an issue. The target audience mentioned above are usually not private homeowners who can have access to private overnight charging. 30 minutes to 80% SOC is just 120 miles of non-winter range. Another 30 minutes needed for the remaining 60 miles of range might be a deterrent to market acceptance. Usable range is really just 30 to 120 miles (90 miles) per 30 min. DCFC. Fine if you charge at home, not so good if you live off of public DCFC.

It's a tough business model to rely on the $7,500 tax rebate being (a) still in existence in 2027, and (b) applicable to wage earners who earn enough to pay $7,500 in income tax (to get it back as a max rebate), and (c) a 140,000 in annual unit sales to get the cost of production to hit the pre-rebate price of $27,000.

At a $27K price point, the 4-door Maverick hybrid XL is a far better choice.

Personally I thought the target demographic was people or families as a secondary car. Could buy a $10k golf cart, could buy a $20k mini-truck.

I also suspect the price will magically come down if and when the tax credit goes away. Costing in the low $20k’s is the main reason it works.

 

[E90400K]

Personally I thought the target demographic was people or families as a secondary car. Could buy a $10k golf cart, could buy a $20k mini-truck.

I also suspect the price will magically come down if and when the tax credit goes away. Costing in the low $20k’s is the main reason it works.

I think that's my position here, what is the target demographic that's going to be the core sales generator. Is it the weekend warrior who drives an aging F150 that he needs to replace? Or is it the fresh out, with money from his first job to buy a cheap new automobile? Does a 2-door, 2 seat cab suffice? Swapping to a makeshift 2-door, 4-seat SUV that will be a total PITA to get into the back seat I'm not seeing much of a market for it. Ask Ford about it's 2-door Bronco (I have one). Is the small bed good enough for the guy switching out of an F150?

I'm sorta that guy, I'll be moving from a midsized pickup that's aging out. I don't need what it can provide as a truck anymore as when I bought it 15 years ago. I need a cheap, 2-door cab with a bed to throw smelly-ass bagged trash into to go to the dump and to haul gasoline and diesel fuel home. Shit you don't want in the back of your sedan or SUV.

I think the Slate may be trying appeal to too much of a broad market that it actually negates itself. 140,000 is a lot of units to move. If the tax credit goes away, the Slate is dead IMO. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ucfknights123]

I think that's my position here, what is the target demographic that's going to be the core sales generator. Is it the weekend warrior who drives an aging F150 that he needs to replace? Or is it the fresh out, with money from his first job to buy a cheap new automobile? Does a 2-door, 2 seat cab suffice? Swapping to a makeshift 2-door, 4-seat SUV that will be a total PITA to get into the back seat I'm not seeing much of a market for it. Ask Ford about it's 2-door Bronco (I have one). Is the small bed good enough for the guy switching out of an F150?

I'm sorta that guy, I'll be moving from a midsized pickup that's aging out. I don't need what it can provide as a truck anymore as when I bought it 15 years ago. I need a cheap, 2-door cab with a bed to throw smelly-ass bagged trash into to go to the dump and to haul gasoline and diesel fuel home. Shit you don't want in the back of your sedan or SUV.

I think the Slate may be trying appeal to too much of a broad market that it actually negates itself. 140,000 is a lot of units to move. If the tax credit goes away, the Slate is dead IMO. I hope I'm wrong.

Anyone who wants a second car for going around town, going to Home Depot, hauling a bike to a ride, an 16 year old, etc. You would definitely fit into a targeted category but certainly aren’t the only category.

I’m not sure why you’re insistent they’d keep the price the same after the credit goes away.

 

[E90400K]

Anyone who wants a second car for going around town, going to Home Depot, hauling a bike to a ride, an 16 year old, etc. You would definitely fit into a targeted category but certainly aren’t the only category.

I’m not sure why you’re insistent they’d keep the price the same after the credit goes away.

At $20K it's a great truck for a multi-car fleet, and great for a single young person who can't afford a $50K new vehicle. But in between that at $27K without tax credit pricing support, the Ford Maverick gives you easy-access 4-doors, and a nearly same sized bed, with 400-mile range recovery in 5 minutes for a few thousand more in price, which is just $10 more a month in car payment.

If the idea is the now married young person can expand the pickup into the SUV as his family grows, I get that. But how many young people get rid of their 2-door, 4-seat sports coupe when the baby comes along? Lots.

I'm not trying to piss on the Slate at all, I'm just mulling over the business case for it. It may be just too in-between.

 

[BeachHead]

At $20K it's a great truck for a multi-car fleet, and great for a single young person who can't afford a $50K new vehicle. But in between that at $27K without tax credit pricing support, the Ford Maverick gives you easy-access 4-doors, and a nearly same sized bed, with 400-mile range recovery in 5 minutes for a few thousand more in price, which is just $10 more a month in car payment.

If the idea is the now married young person can expand the pickup into the SUV as his family grows, I get that. But how many young people get rid of their 2-door, 4-seat sports coupe when the baby comes along? Lots.

I'm not trying to piss on the Slate at all, I'm just mulling over the business case for it. It may be just too in-between.

Well, does anyone know if the tax credit will still be in existence when the Slate begins delivery? If it is, then it must be considered in your business case, which then gives the Slate a significant price advantage. If it isn't, then your points are valid, assuming every other factor between the two remain the same. Which, to me, is unlikely. I think the very rich investors in this venture are smart enough to have some sort of alternative plans in case the tax credit disappears. Plus, I also think it unlikely the Ford product sees no pricing changes between now and then, again, unlikely.

My suspicion is that absent the tax credit, the Slate initially sells for a lower price than $27K, and price increases on the ford will be such that there is still a financial gap between the two...IF Slate considers the ford as a direct competitor product.

In any case, it will provide some entertainment as we watch how things play out.

 

[E90400K]

Well, does anyone know if the tax credit will still be in existence when the Slate begins delivery? If it is, then it must be considered in your business case, which then gives the Slate a significant price advantage. If it isn't, then your points are valid, assuming every other factor between the two remain the same. Which, to me, is unlikely. I think the very rich investors in this venture are smart enough to have some sort of alternative plans in case the tax credit disappears. Plus, I also think it unlikely the Ford product sees no pricing changes between now and then, again, unlikely.

My suspicion is that absent the tax credit, the Slate initially sells for a lower price than $27K, and price increases on the ford will be such that there is still a financial gap between the two...IF Slate considers the ford as a direct competitor product.

In any case, it will provide some entertainment as we watch how things play out.

Not wanting to take this topic into the polical realm, but tax policy by nature is political.

It's a juxtaposition situation here. The current Administration wants to and ran on the "reindustrlization" of America (not a new idea, since it's first term also ran on that meme and a lot of industry CEO's joined on the 1st term's short lived Presidential Industry Council). But the 2nd term seems to not want large subsiding of the EV market and was pretty clear it wants to sunset the EV tax credit and let the EV market stand on its own. Does announcement of SLATE influence the politico enough to weigh the reindustrialization of America over sunsetting the tax credit, especially considering Scout Motors and now SLATE are fresh startups reshoring manufacturing in the US.

I'd love for a journalist to ask that question to the President.

 

[ucfknights123]

I think the very rich investors in this venture are smart enough to have some sort of alternative plans in case the tax credit disappears.

Bingo. You don’t get nine figures of investment funds without being able to show a viable product and pricing strategy.

Letting cost drive price is a small business strategy and ultimately why most fail.

 

[YDR37]

It's a tough business model to rely on the $7,500 tax rebate ... At a $27K price point, the 4-door Maverick hybrid XL is a far better choice.

The Maverick is only $27K because it's made in Mexico. The business model for the Maverick assumes the absence of tariffs on imported vehicles. It's true that the price of the Slate may be affected by political developments, but the price of the Maverick is very much at risk as well.

 

[E90400K]

The Maverick is only $27K because it's made in Mexico. The business model for the Maverick assumes the absence of tariffs on imported vehicles. It's true that the price of the Slate may be affected by political developments, but the price of the Maverick is very much at risk as well.

But according to the White House:

"For Canada and Mexico, the existing fentanyl/migration IEEPA orders remain in effect, and are unaffected by this order. This means USMCA compliant goods will continue to see a 0% tariff, non-USMCA compliant goods will see a 25% tariff, and non-USMCA compliant energy and potash will see a 10% tariff."

Cars are part of the USMCA.

 

[YDR37]

But according to the White House:

"For Canada and Mexico, the existing fentanyl/migration IEEPA orders remain in effect, and are unaffected by this order. This means USMCA compliant goods will continue to see a 0% tariff, non-USMCA compliant goods will see a 25% tariff, and non-USMCA compliant energy and potash will see a 10% tariff."

Cars are part of the USMCA.

The White House has been changing its mind a lot lately, and may do so again in the future. I believe the current policy (as of March 26) is that

Importers of automobiles under the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement will be given the opportunity to certify their U.S. content and systems will be implemented such that the 25% tariff will only apply to the value of their non-U.S. content.

So at least for now, there would not be an automatic 25% tariff on the full value of an imported Maverick. But there would still be a 25% tariff on any non-US content in that imported vehicle.

And regardless of the current policy, it could change next month. Or the month after.

 

[Crimpcap]

I have been shopping for a $27k Maverick hybrid. They do not exist. Supply and demand has upped the cost by greedy dealers. One of the things I like about Slate is direct to consumer sales.

 

[E90400K]

The White House has been changing its mind a lot lately, and may do so again in the future. I believe the current policy (as of March 26) is that

So at least for now, there would not be an automatic 25% tariff on the full value of an imported Maverick. But there would still be a 25% tariff on any non-US content in that imported vehicle.

And regardless of the current policy, it could change next month. Or the month after.

My qoute was from April 2nd. Above that paragraph was this:

"Some goods will not be subject to the Reciprocal Tariff. These include: (1) articles subject to 50 USC 1702(b); (2) steel/aluminum articles and autos/auto parts already subject to Section 232 tariffs; (3) copper, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, and lumber articles; (4) all articles that may become subject to future Section 232 tariffs; (5) bullion; and (6) energy and other certain minerals that are not available in the United States."

For Mexico specifically, the impetus for tariffs on non-USMCA covered products (and parts) is tied to Mexico's performance in stemming illegal immigration and illegal importation of fentanyl, rather than adjusting or correcting trade imbalances. Which I think means auto related economic activity with Mexico under the USMCA as not as susceptible to fluctuations in tariff policy. I'll go as far and say it will remain unaffected.

The EV tax rebate policy I think has more risk. If I were in Congress, my move on keeping the EV tax credits would be tied to negotiating with the Administration on its current tax structure implemented in its first term, which expire in September. It would be beneficial for Slate to lobby such points as much as Ford is lobbying for USMCA stability.

Drama. 🤣