Jeff Bezos's $25,000 EV Truck Has One Fatal Flaw • Jeff Jablansky | MotoMan Podcast 006

[E90400K]

With only the 2 battery options being the only 2 different versions that will roll off the assembly line, all they need to know is how many trucks are being produced today, and how many of each battery. The battery part only those on that short part of the line even need to know or be concerned with. every truck going down the line gets the exact same parts added at each point in the line, the whole line except the short branch where the battery is added.
This really is going back to the way the first model T lines worked, nothing custom, no variations.

You don't need a computer system to track by VIN number that this truck will be red, and have leather seats, sunroof, upgraded headlights, and the 3rd of 5 different sound systems, if they are all the same. All every station on the line has to do is add the same parts to every truck.

Everything else is accessories that probably don't even enter the same building. Most will probably be fully made and packaged, with slate branding, at outside facilities, run by other companies. When you order the truck, and accessories at the same time, to install yourself, they may be shipped separately, from different warehouses in different parts of the country.

The battery is being assembled in house on an adjacent assembly line, so the assembly process is more complex. But your point and my point are the same, the two different battery capacities do not affect the form or fit of the assembly process, just like different colored body panels don't.

The accessories add engineering cost. Slate has to engineer the electric window mechanism. The door design and electrical system design has to accommodate both manual and electric window mechanisms, which is antithetical to radical simplicity.

The floor pan has to accommodate rear seats, a roll bar, and the electrical and safety systems have to accommodate additional airbags for rear passengers. The mid panel has to be designed to be both removable and water tight. I don't see any of it as radical simplicity.

I think it is a great idea and marketing scheme for a low volume startup, I just don't see it from an engineering perspective and manufacturing perspective as radically simplistic.

 

[Zorba]

Oversimplified- my point is: Most people use an audio system while in the vehicle. Excluding that audio system is a deterrent to a customer, unless it is relatively easy to install one post-purchase. Most consumers do not install aftermarket audio in their car, so it is a new world to them. The easier it is to install, the better- as a part of Slate's big picture mission to sell 100k cars/year.

As long as it remains an OPTION, not the thrice damned "standard" that plagues the modern car industry.

 

[Zorba]

JIT manufacturing, the industry has been doing it nearly 50 years. And, a thing called a computer has been invented, and now AI too. It really doesn't add complexity to the assembly process.

That's exactly right. I worked for an outfit in the 80s that was a pioneer in JIT and CAM. Everything was guided by barcode. There is exactly zero reason NOT to have options and build by LINE ITEM. ZERO.

 

[Driven5]

I find the topics around here less challenging than the willful ignorance.

I have not seen it stated that some color pigments are more prone to 'color' degradation than others. What has been stated is that preventing UV degradation* requires UV stabilizers. What that means is materials like carbon black and titanium dioxide (white) being added to the plastic in some obviously proprietary formulation. Such stabilizers themselves also ultimately act as pigments too. I understand that it's easy enough to make UV stabilized grayscale** colors with them. But if only there was somebody who could speak with the authority of having 'studied plastics manufacturing' that could explain why the same combination of carbon black and titanium dioxide that make for a UV stable gray would not make for a very good black, white, red, or blue.


*More important than fading, UV degradation of the polymers means embrittlement and loss of mechanical strength. Pure polypropylene will lose as much as 70% of it's mechanical strength from as little as 6 days of accelerated UV exposure testing.

**Oddly enough, even on an $80k+ Bronco, the MIC*** top just so happens to also only come in 'carbon gray'. ALL other colors of Bronco hard top are painted, rather than molded in... For some inexplicable reason.

*** MIC is a process, not a material. Different materials have different properties that make them non-interchangeable. The Bronco top is polyacetal. The Slate panels are polypropylene. I believe golf cart roofs are typically ABS. And vinyl wraps are their own can o' worms.

 

[AZFox]

There is exactly zero reason NOT to have options and build by LINE ITEM. ZERO.

There's at least one, attributed to Einstein:

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

 

[sodamo]

Again, have whatever colors you desire and are willing to pay for in Slate 2.0, but leave Slate 1.0 alone, Slate Grey is perfectly fine. Do NOT allow any distractions of dollars, time, or knowledge that impacts that goal.

 

[E90400K]

I find the topics around here less challenging than the willful ignorance.

I have not seen it stated that some color pigments are more prone to 'color' degradation than others. What has been stated is that preventing UV degradation* requires UV stabilizers. What that means is materials like carbon black and titanium dioxide (white) being added to the plastic in some obviously proprietary formulation. Such stabilizers themselves also ultimately act as pigments too. I understand that it's easy enough to make UV stabilized grayscale** colors with them. But if only there was somebody who could speak with the authority of having 'studied plastics manufacturing' that could explain why the same combination of carbon black and titanium dioxide that make for a UV stable gray would not make for a very good black, white, red, or blue.


*More important than fading, UV degradation of the polymers means embrittlement and loss of mechanical strength. Pure polypropylene will lose as much as 70% of it's mechanical strength from as little as 6 days of accelerated UV exposure testing.

**Oddly enough, even on an $80k+ Bronco, the MIC*** top just so happens to also only come in 'carbon gray'. ALL other colors of Bronco hard top are painted, rather than molded in... For some inexplicable reason.

*** MIC is a process, not a material. Different materials have different properties that make them non-interchangeable. The Bronco top is polyacetal. The Slate panels are polypropylene. I believe golf cart roofs are typically ABS. And vinyl wraps are their own can o' worms.

None of the Slate body panels are structural components. Painted Bronco tops are SMC vs. an injection molded poly. Thermosetting SMC takes paint better and is more stable.

Amazing how my MIC medium blue injection molded plastic-bodied tractor just hasn't turned to dust in 20 years. Must be magic or sorcery.

 

[GaRailroader]

None of the Slate body panels are structural components. Painted Bronco tops are SMC vs. an injection molded poly. Thermosetting SMC takes paint better and is more stable.

Amazing how my MIC medium blue injection molded plastic-bodied tractor just hasn't turned to dust in 20 years. Must be magic or sorcery.

Most tractors are stored in a garage/barn/lean to/shed or under a cover so they don’t get the UV damage that a truck that lives outdoors would see, no?

 

[Bayfire2441]

The battery is being assembled in house on an adjacent assembly line, so the assembly process is more complex. But your point and my point are the same, the two different battery capacities do not affect the form or fit of the assembly process, just like different colored body panels don't.

The accessories add engineering cost. Slate has to engineer the electric window mechanism. The door design and electrical system design has to accommodate both manual and electric window mechanisms, which is antithetical to radical simplicity.

The floor pan has to accommodate rear seats, a roll bar, and the electrical and safety systems have to accommodate additional airbags for rear passengers. The mid panel has to be designed to be both removable and water tight. I don't see any of it as radical simplicity.

I think it is a great idea and marketing scheme for a low volume startup, I just don't see it from an engineering perspective and manufacturing perspective as radically simplistic.

I think a few more things to consider here as well is that more options on the assembly line mean a higher chance of messing up a customers order. Easier for a startup to ignore this problem and any associated costs, whatever they may be, by just not dealing with it and giving that problem to the consumer and aftermarket companies. I would also like to add that the battery being a factory line item, IMO, seems to stem from the high voltage system not being designed to be messed with by the end user. Ultimately, none of us will know unless Slate says it so we can only guess why they have done what they have done.

 

[E90400K]

Most tractors are stored in a garage/barn/lean to/shed or under a cover so they don’t get the UV damage that a truck that lives outdoors would see, no?

No. Not where I live. I must have skipped over the section in my tractor's owners manual where it said to keep the tractor indoors to prevent structural damage to the plastics because it is not grayscale MIC. <sarcasm>

 

[E90400K]

I think a few more things to consider here as well is that more options on the assembly line mean a higher chance of messing up a customers order. Easier for a startup to ignore this problem and any associated costs, whatever they may be, by just not dealing with it and giving that problem to the consumer and aftermarket companies. I would also like to add that the battery being a factory line item, IMO, seems to stem from the high voltage system not being designed to be messed with by the end user. Ultimately, none of us will know unless Slate says it so we can only guess why they have done what they have done.

I'm just talking about a change in the production process that accomodates installatuon of bolt-on body panels in four additional colors other than gray. In a production process that is already designed for manufacture of a vehicle with two different capacity sized batteries.

 

[Bayfire2441]

I'm just talking about a change in the production process that accomodates installatuon of bolt-on body panels in four additional colors other than gray. In a production process that is already designed for manufacture of a vehicle with two different capacity sized batteries.

Right, I'm just pointing out some reasons they might decide that process isn't worth it. I agree that on paper it doesn't seem like it'd be a bad idea to offer a few more colors but I also see all the reasons they wouldn't want to either. Hopefully for the owners who do want different colored molded panels, they can be offered down the line by Slate or a third party. It could also be a supplier thing too if they are truly sticking with American suppliers. I've heard they can be picky, especially compared to Chinese suppliers, but I don't really have experience with either of those.