Article: Slate Auto CEO Chris Barman tells us how exactly it’s making a $25,000 EV

[KevinRS]

I am hoping that the plastic formulation they are using will have a UV inhibitor included: it just about has to, or they won't last 2 years in sunnier states, that should take care of questions about that.
Plastic panels may save some on weight, along with the manufacturing savings mentioned. Lots of cars available now have approaching 50% of the body actually being plastic panels, when the bumper covers are plastic, and the bumper covers extend to the doors.
It's supposed to be easier to wrap than most cars, because it's designed for it, without complex curves and creases, no trim to remove, and index points built in. A shop should be able to wrap it in half or less than the amount of time they spend on other vehicles. DIY might be a stretch, unless you can do some practice work.

 

[AZFox]

I am hoping that the plastic formulation they are using will have a UV inhibitor included: it just about has to, or they won't last 2 years in sunnier states, that should take care of questions about that.

There's been some discussion about that.

• Composite Plastic Body Panel Care (Cleaning, Protecting, Waxing, Coating)
• Wrapping for plastic fade protection

 

[sodamo]

There's been some discussion about that.

• Composite Plastic Body Panel Care (Cleaning, Protecting, Waxing, Coating)
• Wrapping for plastic fade protection

A poster here identified as a detailer and list his recommendations of products. Wish I had saved it.

 

[E90400K]

They've shown power door locks in the builds they have so far. So it's at least two wires for that. As long as you can cap off whatever connector they've got with something water-tight I would think it wouldn't be so bad, but we haven't seen them actually show off a real doorless Slate yet.

Here is my observations about a door-less Slate. I speak from experience as I owned a '95 Jeep XJ Wrangler for 12 years and I now own a '22 Bronco.

Both of those vehicles were designed from the onset to have removable doors. The Jeep's doors were half-doors with a removable plastic/vinyl window. One nut secured the top door hinge and the door hinge stuck out from the body. The doors had no electrics in them, so no wire harness, no glass, which cuts the weight down significantly. The door check is a simple strap that loops over a hook on the kick panel.

The modern Bronco doors are much more complex to remove. The doors have electric windows and locks, and side impact sensors, so there is a hefty electrical harness. The harness unplugs at the body door frame. The connector has a watertight cover door that springs closed. The Bronco doors have hard-to-access hinges, which makes it a bit difficult to take the doors easily on and off. And the doors are heavy compared to the old Wrangler's doors. Ford thoughtfully molded into the door card a grab point at the bottom of the door to assist in lifting the door off the hinges. The door checks are built into the hinges.

Now what most people don't understand about the Jeep and Bronco is fit-tolerance. Because the doors are designed to be removed, they do not seal as tightly to the body as a conventional truck or SUV. The body-line gaps are wider and the rubber door seals are looser. All necessary to make the door easier to remove and install, which comes at a cost of noise and water intrusion. One of the complaints about Wranglers, and more so Broncos, are the vehicles are loud inside. That is in part because of the is door designed to be easily removed.

I don't think Slate has developed a door design that purposely makes the door easy to remove as the Wrangler and Bronco are. The Slate looks like it has simple hinges, which have somewhat easy access to the hinge bolts, but it looks like the doors are designed to seal tightly to the door frame, unlike the Wangler and Bronco. My observation is the Slate doors will be not be easily removed and how will the crash protection system be affected. The Bronco and modern Wrangler have workarounds built into the crash protection system that recognizes the doors are removed. That's a whole lot more engineering involved than simply just unbolting the door and pulling it off the body.

Again, not being negative, just discussing the engineering and cost elements involved.

 

[Luxrage]

Here is my observations about a door-less Slate. I speak from experience as I owned a '95 Jeep XJ Wrangler for 12 years and I now own a '22 Bronco.
...
Again, not being negative, just discussing the engineering and cost elements involved.

I'm on the same page as you are, I'm skeptical of the removable doors. Slate's renders don't show much about what's going on in that hinge area. I've unbolted a door/hinges from a car and re-aligned it and I don't wish that on anyone. I've seen Jeep's bottom bolt hinges and it makes a lot of sense to do it that way.

The Slate designer render just looks like someone turned the doors off, thought it looked cool, and left the option in.

 

[E90400K]

I'm on the same page as you are, I'm skeptical of the removable doors. Slate's renders don't show much about what's going on in that hinge area. I've unbolted a door/hinges from a car and re-aligned it and I don't wish that on anyone. I've seen Jeep's bottom bolt hinges and it makes a lot of sense to do it that way.

The Slate designer render just looks like someone turned the doors off, thought it looked cool, and left the option in.

Exactly. Ford and Jeep spent lots and lots of engineering time designing-in the ease to remove and install the doors without the alignment issues regular vehicles have. If low MSRP for the Slate is one of the main goals of the endeavor, I really don't see why Slate would spend that level of engineering time on the doors if door-less operation is not a primary attribute of the vehicle.

 

[SlatePossible2028]

I can explain at least what part of that might be...

Speaking freely and candidly without concealment or manipulation (known as "speaking with parrhesia") inevitably will make some people uncomfortable because their existing beliefs are challenged by new information (known as "cognitive dissonance").

This manifests itself in a lot of ways, including telling the person to be quiet. Other ways include ad-hominem attacks (disparaging the person who elicited their psychological discomfort) and various forms of rationalization or justification.

Then there's my favorite: Word Salad, where they write or speak in clear sentences that have virtually no meaning to anyone expecting rational discourse.

I know you don't like AI, @SlatePossible2028, but it came up with this gem of a sentence:

Individuals may also experience difficulty in reconciling their personal needs with the needs of others, feel a loss of control over situations they care about, and have a hard time recognizing the person they have become.​

This happens on forums all the time. The best you can do is work around it.

I think it's becoming more prevalent because various forms of media are silo-ing the bejeezus out of the population, but that's just a hypothesis.

For long time, until 2022 or so, I used reddit for sim racing recruitment. That site was actively in the process of falling apart.

That sort of behavior wasnt just common there, it was an active tactic people used to stop people from discussing topics they didn't like, including things like genuine problems with said simracing etc

Not as bad here at all, but the first forum ive seen it on in all my forum time.

 

[bartflossom]

It's been a few years since I have had a manual window car. My recollection is rotate forward for windows down and rotate backwards for windows up. These are opposite to that?

Yes. These go counterclockwise on drivers door to lower and clockwise on passenger door. Opposite to my 63 bug, 67 falcon, 57 chevy, 67 delta 88, 81 mustang, 81 chevette, 74 Monte carlo, 84 Mazda SE-5, and 69 chevy C-10. I've probably forgot a couple.

 

[cadblu]

Here is my observations about a door-less Slate. I speak from experience as I owned a '95 Jeep XJ Wrangler for 12 years and I now own a '22 Bronco.

Both of those vehicles were designed from the onset to have removable doors. The Jeep's doors were half-doors with a removable plastic/vinyl window. One nut secured the top door hinge and the door hinge stuck out from the body. The doors had no electrics in them, so no wire harness, no glass, which cuts the weight down significantly. The door check is a simple strap that loops over a hook on the kick panel.

The modern Bronco doors are much more complex to remove. The doors have electric windows and locks, and side impact sensors, so there is a hefty electrical harness. The harness unplugs at the body door frame. The connector has a watertight cover door that springs closed. The Bronco doors have hard-to-access hinges, which makes it a bit difficult to take the doors easily on and off. And the doors are heavy compared to the old Wrangler's doors. Ford thoughtfully molded into the door card a grab point at the bottom of the door to assist in lifting the door off the hinges. The door checks are built into the hinges.

Now what most people don't understand about the Jeep and Bronco is fit-tolerance. Because the doors are designed to be removed, they do not seal as tightly to the body as a conventional truck or SUV. The body-line gaps are wider and the rubber door seals are looser. All necessary to make the door easier to remove and install, which comes at a cost of noise and water intrusion. One of the complaints about Wranglers, and more so Broncos, are the vehicles are loud inside. That is in part because of the is door designed to be easily removed.

I don't think Slate has developed a door design that purposely makes the door easy to remove as the Wrangler and Bronco are. The Slate looks like it has simple hinges, which have somewhat easy access to the hinge bolts, but it looks like the doors are designed to seal tightly to the door frame, unlike the Wangler and Bronco. My observation is the Slate doors will be not easily to remove and how will the crash protection system be affected. The Bronco and modern Wrangler have workarounds built into the crash protection system that recognizes the doors are removed. That's a whole lot more engineering involved than simply just unbolting the door and pulling it off the body.

Again, not being negative, just discussing the engineering and cost elements involved.

For those adventurous types who enjoy the thrill of a doorless driving experience, it's important to note that most states require side view mirrors in order to drive on public roads. I can totally envision a mod kit to install mirrors to the windshield pillar or exposed door hinges so that the Slate remains street legal. Interestingly the only state you must have doors is PA. But if we are going to take the Slate truck off-road, that brings up a whole new set of issues.

First, being that the Slate is a RWD vehicle (for the foreseeable future) that greatly limits mobility in off road and over trail situations. Along with many folks, I would like to configure mine with a lift kit and oversized tires. I think the rugged design of the Slate fits well with trail ventures and the doors removed.

Now getting back to off-road ventures, there is some good news ahead. And this is not conjecture, it is proof. Slate currently has job openings for project engineers (exterior). According to the job description:

"We design utility accessories built for personalization and real-life adventure—engineered to perform on the trail, in the driveway, and everywhere in between. As Senior Project Engineer – Utility Accessories & Hard Goods, you'll lead the development of exterior and structural products such as roof racks, cargo mounts, modular utility systems, and body protection gear. You'll take responsibility for technical execution across internal teams and global suppliers, ensuring performance, durability, and compliance every step of the way."

Appears that Slate is committed to adding body protection gear, which might include rock sliders, bumper protectors, grill guards, and skid plates. Together with a future 4WD version, Slate may have a real contender with Jeep and Bronco

 

[cvollers]

Wiped out the moment you install door speakers.

Will the locks not be electric? How often are we taking the doors off a Slate?

How often for me? Never.

 

[E90400K]

For those adventurous types who enjoy the thrill of a doorless driving experience, it's important to note that most states require side view mirrors in order to drive on public roads. I can totally envision a mod kit to install mirrors to the windshield pillar or exposed door hinges so that the Slate remains street legal. Interestingly the only state you must have doors is PA. But if we are going to take the Slate truck off-road, that brings up a whole new set of issues.

First, being that the Slate is a RWD vehicle (for the foreseeable future) that greatly limits mobility in off road and over trail situations. Along with many folks, I would like to configure mine with a lift kit and oversized tires. I think the rugged design of the Slate fits well with trail ventures and the doors removed.

Now getting back to off-road ventures, there is some good news ahead. And this is not conjecture, it is proof. Slate currently has job openings for project engineers (exterior). According to the job description:

"We design utility accessories built for personalization and real-life adventure—engineered to perform on the trail, in the driveway, and everywhere in between. As Senior Project Engineer – Utility Accessories & Hard Goods, you'll lead the development of exterior and structural products such as roof racks, cargo mounts, modular utility systems, and body protection gear. You'll take responsibility for technical execution across internal teams and global suppliers, ensuring performance, durability, and compliance every step of the way."

Appears that Slate is committed to adding body protection gear, which might include rock sliders, bumper protectors, grill guards, and skid plates. Together with a future 4WD version, Slate may have a real contender with Jeep and Bronco

Ford smartly mounted the mirrors on the Bronco on the body rather than the doors. With my XJ, the doors were so easy to remove and fit in the back, that I'd often take them off during the day. I kept a 12MM wrench in the console along with two large bicycle handlebar-end mirrors I rigged up to slide into the top door hinge with a spacer and long bolt with a wing nut.

I think PA has since revised it's no-door law IIRC.

 

[Roy]

Just a few comments. My education background is industrial engineering, and I worked early in my career as an equipment planning engineer at an aerospace manufacturing plant, which means I spec'd, planned for and assisted in the installation of manufacturing equipment and machinery. I studied plastics manufacturing as part of my engineering curriculum. I'm pretty well versed in industrial manufacturing, but no expert in the automotive sector, though as a car geek, I've followed car manufacturing as an intellectual interest for the part 40 years.

I found her revelation about the manual window crank mechanism interesting because in other posts I've stated I do not see a cost savings in manual-crank windows when the vast majority of the industry uses electric windows. She confirmed what I thought, which is there are no American suppliers in the automotive sector that manufacture manual crank window assemblies. So, they had to source from Brazil. I've not looked, but if the US tariff posture has changed for Brazil regarding automotive parts, even a 5% tariff increase may make the manual windows more expensive than US-sourced electric windows. And why did Slate develop an electric window accessory, which hopefully is sourced from a non-tariff US supplier. It just says gimmic to me.

Second, the choice of MIC FRP (molded in color fiber reinforced plastic) panels. I get the capitalization (CapEx) position that lots of cost is saved by not having a paint shop at the factory, which I think led to moving to MIC FRP panels. GM pioneered this body architecture with the Fiero, the Pontiac Transport/Olds Silhouette, then the spaceframe/plastic panels architecture was the basis of the entire Saturn car company (initially - before GM Corp. got involved and pulled Saturn back into the corporate fold). But I don't think plastic panels are any less costly to produce than stamped steel alternatives. Slate's reasoning is that the company saves CapEx on not having stamping machinery in the plant to produce the panels and the MIC saves the requirement to pant the panels. Yet (as we know from the Munro video) the chassis will be fabricated in the plant from supplier-sourced stamped steel parts using an automated welding line. The chassis then will be E-coated on site in the plant. While not the same process as spray-painting the assembled body, the metal is coated with a decent looking paint-like application to prevent corrosion. It can be wrapped to the choice of color just as much as the planned plastic body.

GM developed the Fiero (and follow-on GM models) spaceframe/plastic architecture to reduce manufacturing costs as well reducing generational body design changes since the panels are non-structural, bolt-on parts, which makes updating the design much less costly. So, if Slate's idea is to produce a one-color "blank Slate" that has to be wrapped by the customer to change paint color, why not just build the body with steel panels and E-coat the whole thing? I would think the Slate FRP panels is standing up a new supplier base that is going to produce the large plastic panels since most of the industry uses steel stampings. Manufacturing large plastic panels that need some level of good surface finish and color consistency is not inexpensive. Large plastic injection molding machines and dies are not cheap, which is CapEx Slate will pay for via its supplier pricing. Note that GM abandoned its spaceframe/plastic panel architecture decades ago, which could be reasoning that it turned out in the end not to be less expensive to produce(?). So, my thought here is, what is Slate doing different than GM to make the spaceframe/plastic panel architecture financially viable?

I think Slate's idea that customers are going to embrace the idea of DIY wrapping their newly purchased Blank Slate is on the edge of wishful thinking. Yeah, the marketing tagline is "the panels are designed for easy wrap application" (of Slate's wrap kit), but still, there is some art and skill to wrapping a car body that I'd say even the most auto DIY'ers (like me) don't have. Expecting a DIY'er who is not skilled in wrapping to get an acceptable finish the first time out is not realistic in my opinion. I'll probably rattle-can mine since I have much more experience painting with a spray can than I do vinyl wrapping a car. And no tools are needed to use a rattle can, where wrapping requires a unique tool set.

I do think the BYOD infotainment is a great idea and cost savings for development purposes, but does it really save that much? They still have a Seattle-based software team on staff to develop what software is needed for the EV drivetrain control and smartphone apps. I'm sure the automotive industry by now has a decent supplier base of infotainment developers.

Just some observations.

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis. You have brought up some very god questions regarding the build process. Some of the choices may have changed time and an evolution of materials, methods and processes. Things do change, even manufacturing. I feel that there are a host of questions regarding the Slate that are still to be answered. An example is: How are insurance companies going rate the platform, Do they have a receiver hitch install figured out, How will they do warranty repair, How will they get the trucks to customers? There are still many questions to be answered. I do respect Slate management for their efforts. No matter wether I actually get a Slate in my garage or not is irrelevant, this is a storm of fresh air in the world right now.

 

[dcgray2]

Ford smartly mounted the mirrors on the Bronco on the body rather than the doors. With my XJ, the doors were so easy to remove and fit in the back, that I'd often take them off during the day. I kept a 12MM wrench in the console along with two large bicycle handlebar-end mirrors I rigged up to slide into the top door hinge with a spacer and long bolt with a wing nut.

I think PA has since revised it's no-door law IIRC.

Yes PA changed it's law last year. Doors off are fine if the mfg made the vehicle to be able to remove the doors. And yes you still need side mirrors.

IF the doors are removable and IF they offer them, get the mfg door bags. I can't recommend these enough. Makes doors easier to remove and keeps them safe while in storage.

 

[E90400K]

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis. You have brought up some very god questions regarding the build process. Some of the choices may have changed time and an evolution of materials, methods and processes. Things do change, even manufacturing. I feel that there are a host of questions regarding the Slate that are still to be answered. An example is: How are insurance companies going rate the platform, Do they have a receiver hitch install figured out, How will they do warranty repair, How will they get the trucks to customers? There are still many questions to be answered. I do respect Slate management for their efforts. No matter whether I actually get a Slate in my garage or not is irrelevant, this is a storm of fresh air in the world right now.

You bring up a good point about insurance. Is or should there be a premium adjustment if someone buys a pickup slate then converts it to the SUV. Slate has stated that an owner can't just add the rear seat and roof section without adding the rollbar that houses the side curtain airbags (thanks to Ford for developing the rollbar/airbag concept ), but is that a detail that gets down into the insurance pricing tables? I would think it is the Slate owner's responsibility tell his insurance company he's made the conversion.

 

[sodamo]

You bring up a good point about insurance. Is or should there be a premium adjustment if someone buys a pickup slate then converts it to the SUV. Slate has stated that an owner can't just add the rear seat and roof section without adding the rollbar that houses the side curtain airbags (thanks to Ford for developing the rollbar/airbag concept ), but is that a detail that gets down into the insurance pricing tables? I would think it is the Slate owner's responsibility tell his insurance company he's made the conversion.

I would think something of the honor system. Yes owner responsible to update insurance company, but fine print may come into pkay and deny claim should they don’t. Could imagine insurance company requiring pictures if seat removed and owner claiming just a truck.