You Need Way Less Range Than You Think

[Dorbiman]

I don't pay attention to anyone telling me " what I need." Did you ever hear anyone complain; "gee, my house is too big, I have too many closets, too much storage....." Well you get the idea.

Why then should we accept a lower range vehicle which restricts your lifestyle? It just makes sense to opt for the larger battery. No one will ever complain "wish I got the standard range" Slate.

Do you really think this? Of course people say “man my house is too big” they paid for that extra size. Realizing you don’t need a McMansion and that vacuuming for three hours sucks is a real thing.

Why should you accept it? Because if you know you won’t use it, why pay for it? Thats just a waste of money.

 

[cadblu]

Do you really think this? Of course people say “man my house is too big” they paid for that extra size. Realizing you don’t need a McMansion and that vacuuming for three hours sucks is a real thing.

Why should you accept it? Because if you know you won’t use it, why pay for it? Thats just a waste of money.

Not to disagree but a few thousand extra for the 240 mile range battery is not a waste of money. You might probably spend that on all the dealer add ons / port installed options at a conventional dealership that you don’t need or want. The $3500 is soon forgotten in the first year of ownership. And the one time you find yourself too far from a charging station or need to navigate outside your planned route for charging you will regret getting the standard range. And just wait until winter sets in and your range drops like a rock.

Ask me how I know…

 

[atx_ev]

I don't pay attention to anyone telling me " what I need." Did you ever hear anyone complain; "gee, my house is too big, I have too many closets, too much storage....." Well you get the idea.

Why then should we accept a lower range vehicle which restricts your lifestyle? It just makes sense to opt for the larger battery. No one will ever complain "wish I got the standard range" Slate.

Absolutely you should buy whatever meets your needs. A product team creates a hypothetical user profile and builds towards servicing that. You might be out.

However for sure people say their house is too large. Have you heard of the term downsizing? Once people become empty nesters they often times move to a smaller home.

My tundra is definitely too big. I think the maverick at 200 inches is actually small enough so I would take any truck under 200 inches. I definitely want an EV though.

I want a truck and if my truck needs to be replaced before the slate becomes available I would live with a used model Y. I do want self driving and I do want EV.

Once I live without a truck for awhile, it might turn out that Im fine living without a truck bed.

it probably comes down to 2 row EV crossover vs 1 row EV pickup truck.

Lots of things we think are needs are actually wants.

 

[atx_ev]

Not to disagree but a few thousand extra for the 240 mile range battery is not a waste of money. You might probably spend that on all the dealer add ons / port installed options at a conventional dealership that you don’t need or want. The $3500 is soon forgotten in the first year of ownership. And the one time you find yourself too far from a charging station or need to navigate outside your planned route for charging you will regret getting the standard range. And just wait until winter sets in and your range drops like a rock.

Ask me how I know…

Its not a waste of money for you... I live in the south, it barely gets cold here. Lots of people live in california and it doesnt get cold there.

3500 invested will double every 7 years so it might be worth it to get the smaller battery.

I personally will probably get a blank slate truck and some kind of van for road trips and moving more people. Possibly an erev minivan.

 

[KevinRS]

Drivers of ICEV don't top off every day because they can recover the full fuel tank range in 5 minutes. There is no need to top off the tank. The time difference to top off the tank vs refill the tank from near empty to full is 2 minutes.

On an EV road trip the rule is stop at 20% battery SOC and recharge to 80% SOC because it's (a) best for long term battery health, (b) it's the fastest range recovery of the battery charging curve. That takes detailed planning vs. ICEV which really takes little planning other than watching the fuel gauge (or wait for the low fuel warning) and looking for a gas station.

So, given the choice based on over-the-road refueling time difference between ICEV and EV, the ICEV owner (to be converted) wants 350 miles of range from his EV when he uses it for long distance trips.

Trying to use average EV range use percentage data is pointless because EV owners either bought an EV that meets their daily use case or have accepted (or adjusted to) a limited range lifestyle. The data that needs to be analyzed is how ICEV drivers use their cars with respect to their refueling habits.

I think you are misunderstanding. No one ever used average EV use in this discussion. The numbers we've been using were average "vehicle" use. The average driver of any car drives somewhere between 12-14k miles a year. That's not people who have accepted a limited lifestyle. That's all people. These numbers are from the NHTSA and definitely not EV users only.
14k miles a year is 269 miles a week. That is charging a bit more than twice a week on the standard battery, when you can charge where you park every day.
It comes down to how often do you actually drive farther than the range is? If it's not a large number of times a year, there are apps that will help you plan. If it's all the time, sure, go with a bigger battery, or get a lightning or cybertruck, but know that you are in a tiny minority if you actually "need" a 300-400 mile battery.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

You know, if you look at capitalism and human behavior, it's not about what people need. It's about what people want.

• All we need is a bicycle or our feet. But we want cars.
• All we need is our two weeks of summer rest in a hammock in our backyard. But we want to jet across the globe to visit Greece.
• All we need is a 1,000 square foot home. But we want 3,500 feet on a lake.
• All we need is a salad. But we want a steak.
• All we need is to curl up with a good book. But we want to watch The Simpsons.

It goes on and on. Humans are creatures of want, not need. All the "wishing it weren't so" won't change human nature one iota.

So we can be told that we only need 150 miles of range until the sun goes nova. And we'll still want 300+.

 

[SichuanHot]

You know, if you look at capitalism and human behavior, it's not about what people need. It's about what people want.

• All we need is a bicycle or our feet. But we want cars.
• All we need is our two weeks of summer rest in a hammock in our backyard. But we want to jet across the globe to visit Greece.
• All we need is a 1,000 square foot home. But we want 3,500 feet on a lake.
• All we need is a salad. But we want a steak.
• All we need is to curl up with a good book. But we want to watch The Simpsons.

It goes on and on. Humans are creatures of want, not need. All the "wishing it weren't so" won't change human nature one iota.

So we can be told that we only need 150 miles of range until the sun goes nova. And we'll still want 300+.

Your metaphor doesn't really work in this discussion about EV range in the greater context of existing ICE vehicles. People are used to conducting life around your standard 350+ miles range in ICE cars, more for hybrids. A lot of people who only have one car can't make compromises of having only 100 miles of range on a good day. It's clear the price parity for a cheap ICE car isn't there with a similarly priced EV yet and that's the main thing in question. The debate of you only need x number of miles of range is pretty irrelevant.

 

[KevinRS]

What is relevant is the majority of people never drive more than 100 miles in a day. But they are conditioned to 300+ miles range being "normal" even though they will charge daily. For all those people, a standard battery will be plenty. In fact those 50 mile city cars would be plenty for the majority. A 150 mile range will be sufficient for small road trips, just put your phone in the mount, use one of the multiple apps to plan your route and have lunch somewhere with a charger.

If you are an outlier who drives over 150 miles all the time, good for you, get something else, but don't try to convince everyone that they all need more battery.

 

[Dorbiman]

I think it would be interesting to revisit this thread after a bunch of people have adjusted to EV driving. Range isn't a concern or even something you think about for day to day use when you know it's always charged up and ready to go each day.

 

[sodamo]

Reading this, my head feels like a ping pong ball at times. I think that as far as mileage I’m going to just concentrate on my personal useage, but remain open to other pluses/minuses vs cost difference. In other words, my Slate is attractive up to lower 30’s all in even with Standard, but if upper 30’s and just bigger battery, not so much.

 

[E90400K]

I think you are misunderstanding. No one ever used average EV use in this discussion. The numbers we've been using were average "vehicle" use. The average driver of any car drives somewhere between 12-14k miles a year. That's not people who have accepted a limited lifestyle. That's all people. These numbers are from the NHTSA and definitely not EV users only.
14k miles a year is 269 miles a week. That is charging a bit more than twice a week on the standard battery, when you can charge where you park every day.
It comes down to how often do you actually drive farther than the range is? If it's not a large number of times a year, there are apps that will help you plan. If it's all the time, sure, go with a bigger battery, or get a lightning or cybertruck, but know that you are in a tiny minority if you actually "need" a 300-400 mile battery.

I'm not misunderstanding. The article stated, " Recurrent, a firm that tracks range and battery health in thousands of EVs, crunched the numbers and learned that electric car drivers only use a small fraction of their batteries each day." In response to what the article stated I countered with, "Trying to use average EV range use percentage data is pointless because EV owners either bought an EV that meets their daily use case or have accepted (or adjusted to) a limited range lifestyle."

I then suggested rather than look at EV user data to try and determine why ICEV owners are not converting to EV, use ICEV data to understand ICEV use cases and why they don't fit into an EV use case. My takeaway from the Inside EV's article is ICEV drivers need to adjust their use cases to accept lower range and recharging protocols that come with owning an EV. There is no doubt that under the NHSTA average daily use case of 40 miles (for any type of drivetrain) EV are great if one can charge at home (or work) during the vehicle's parked idle time. But most people make a vehicle purchase decision on their 5th percentile use case (worst case - i.e. the outer parts of the Bell Curve). The simple fact is ICEV work for all socio-economic conditions regarding domicile situation as related to private charging availability; EV do not.

 

[mikell]

Depends on what the heater eats in the winter and the AC in the summer.

 

[AZFox]

No one will ever complain "wish I got the standard range" Slate.

The thing about absolute statements like this is that you only need one exception to prove them false.

*clears throat*

How about the person who discovers they spent thousands of dollars on extra capacity their purposes never required?

Meanwhile that person's Truck lugged around 302 pounds of extra batty that slowed acceleration , extended braking distances, etc...

 

[sodamo]

The thing about absolute statements like this is that you only need one exception to prove them false.

*clears throat*

How about the person who discovers they spent thousands of dollars on extra capacity their purposes never required?

Meanwhile that person's Truck lugged around 302 pounds of extra batty that slowed acceleration , extended braking distances, etc...

I could easily be that person.
I average 5x/yr I expect to exceed 150 miles round trip. And unless I mess up I fully expect all my charging will be at home from my solar electric, hence no additional charge. So far I’m finding even $2500 extra a challenge to justify. Can I afford it, yes. But still haven’t found the justification.

 

[cadblu]

The thing about absolute statements like this is that you only need one exception to prove them false.

*clears throat*

How about the person who discovers they spent thousands of dollars on extra capacity their purposes never required?

Meanwhile that person's Truck lugged around 302 pounds of extra batty that slowed acceleration , extended braking distances, etc...

Noted. Except that real world conditions are filled with detours / road closures due to weather, accidents, water main breaks, utilities and road work, being routed to charging stations that don’t work, etc. You will inevitably need that extra range at some point.

Isn’t the security of you and your family worth the extra $$ to make sure you get home safely? Plus having extra margin means you won’t run the battery down below 20%. Meaning better battery health over the long run.