PSA: Extended Range Battery can NOT be added / retrofit installed after purchase (confirmed by Slate)

[sodamo]

That's on Oahu. @sodamo lives on the Big Island. No superchargers there. #geography

True, couldn’t find a link to any.
and to be honest, except for a Costco run I don’t envision use of any commercial charger. i usually have plenty ”Free” power at home, except a few days in winter.

 

[sodamo]

Really good stuff. People reading should be aware that wiring solar panels in series makes the voltage additive while doing it in parallel makes the current (amperage) additive. The higher the current, the thicker the cables need to be to handle the heat. Typically, LFP power stations like more voltage to generate more charging power (watts) rather than more current. It is a known problem amongst overlanders that trying to charge power stations off a vehicle alternator without some form of voltage step up converter is a recipe for frustration. Just way too slow.

I could easily see having a solar generator trailer (less than 1000 pounds) to drag around behind a Slate. Park it in the sun, deploy the PV panels, and plug it into the Slate charging port. I might even put AT tires and a RTT on it and take it camping.

with roof mounted panels, I could see crafting a mount for the battery/electronics on underside of the SUV/van top. My dogs aren’t that tall.

 

[Blackspots76]

I've been driving a 16kWh battery car with an EPA rated range of 65 miles per charge for a decade now. 8 years after it was built (5 years into my used vehicle ownership experience,) the original pack began to fade in capacity. Since I was the 2nd owner - and traction battery warranties are typically transferable - I was able to procure a replacement pack for free. I assume this replacement pack will last as least as long as the original, probably longer. If so, I'll still be able to drive that car to it's fullest range potential in 2028, 16 years after it left the factory.

Some perspective on battery size . . .

No matter how large the battery, there will always be someone who will tell you that what you have or want isn't large enough. If that person has structured their lifestyle around 350 mile daily work commutes (someone actually told me they do that on an online forum once,) tell them "OK, thanks" and move on.

If you're moving from a fossil fueler, spend some time evaluating you daily driving needs. Account for special circumstances, such as occassional scheduled longer distance trips, and work that into your calculations. If those longer trips are whoppers (500 mile journey, preferrably a non-stop run, but only once a year) then consider renting a vehicle for that single annual occassion and don't factor that in. I think it was determined many years ago that the average US auto owner drives about or less than 40 miles daily. When I self-surveyed myself, I found I drive far less than that.

If your daily driving needs are matching projected range-per-charge figures of the EV you're considering, then, yes, get one with a bigger battery. Account for the fact that it's not healthy for the battery to be cycled from near empty to full every single time. This is especially true with the nickel manganese cobalt (NMC) cells Slate will be using. These batteries last longest if cycled from about 20% to 80% capacity consistently.

So, the 150 mile battery in the entry trim Slate really should be consistently good for 90 mile driving sessions (multiple 5 to 10 mile trips to and from the local grocery store) before recharging. Likewise, the 240 mile pack is realistically (again, if you are concerned with the longest possible service life) a 144 mile pack. Of course you can push these limits by moving beyond the 20% to 80% cycling rule every now and then. But you (or, more specifically, the battery) will eventually suffer from capacity faded if you do this all the time.

I'm going to opt for the large (240 mile) pack on my Slate, even though I'll be making 5 to 10 miles drives most days. But several times a year, I now need to make a single day 60 mile round trip. In the i-MiEV, that means a charge to 100% before leaving home and relying on public charging for the return leg. With the entry level Slate (150 mile pack,) my 60 mile round trip is well within healthy limits of 90 miles on a single 20 to 80% charge.

With the 150 mile Slate pack, I can also technically make a 120 mile one way (overnight stay) journey that would have been tedious and impractical with the i-MiEV. More desirable, though, would be to have the ability to do that within the 20 to 80% (144 mile) charging window of the Slate's larger 240 mile pack. This is especially true if I soon find myself wanting to do this more than a few times a year.

I drive about 2.2 miles to work, and 2.2 miles to home. I go to Wal-Mart and or Lowes every other week (about a 5-7 mile round trip). About 2-4 times a year, I go to the Dallas/Fort Worth area, a drive that takes about two hours. There are plenty of DC fast chargers in the DFW, in my town, they're only available at the Dodge/Kia/Hyundai/GM/Chevy dealers (two are 180kW, two are 50kW, and one is 25kW)

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Looks like you're going to have some fun! Me too.

The Apex 300 has a lot of things going for it, but it's probably not going to be the one I'll be installing in the Slate. I'm more inclined to go with system that will be bolted in or bolted down when it comes to the batteries and related electronics. I'd like to take advantage of the Slate's generously proportioned frunk to store some of this stuff. If I'm planning on keeping the entire solar system attached to the vehicle and knowing in advance that I'll be dealing with LFP, those batteries will need to be heated. I'd also like a certain amount of waterproofing.

Exact detailed yet to be determined, but the mental picture I'm currently drawing up would probably work around two or more of these sort of marine grade heated LFP packs . . .

https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/48v-50ah-heated-bluetooth-lifepo4-battery

This would necessitate a separate MPPT charge controller and DC-to-AC inverter at the other end. I'd like to be able to mount these components at different places on the vehicle. So, for what I'm thinking of, an all-in-box like the Apex 300 is not the way I would go.

That said, the Apex 300 looks like it would be a marvelous choice for a system where you would wanting or needing to be able to take almost everything out of the vehicle at times. Check out Hobotech's review from a few weeks ago. He explains the pros and cons of this unit quite well . . .

 

[Benjamin Nead]

I drive about 2.2 miles to work, and 2.2 miles to home. I go to Wal-Mart and or Lowes every other week (about a 5-7 mile round trip). About 2-4 times a year, I go to the Dallas/Fort Worth area, a drive that takes about two hours. There are plenty of DC fast chargers in the DFW, in my town, they're only available at the Dodge/Kia/Hyundai/GM/Chevy dealers (two are 180kW, two are 50kW, and one is 25kW)

You'd probably be able to do just fine with the smaller pack on the Slate. I could too and, yeah, I currently get by just fine with my older EV and it's very tiny battery. Since every EV today is going to have a larger and better designed, more durable battery system than what us early adopters were given to work with, I would worry too much about things like range anxiety or overall battery durability.

The one good reason for getting the bigger battery in the Slate, beyond real world range requirements for those who know in advance that they're going to need it, is that you will be cycling it less often. If you plan to own the vehicle for a very long time (a decade or two, not just a couple of years,) then pack longevity is a consideration. The fewer times you have to plug in to get those 10 or 15 grocery runs per charge, the longer your battery will last before it needs replacing.

 

[Blackspots76]

You'd probably be able to do just fine with the smaller pack on the Slate. I could too and, yeah, I currently get by just fine with my older EV and it's very tiny battery. Since every EV today is going to have a larger and better designed, more durable battery system than what us early adopters were given to work with, I would worry too much about things like range anxiety or overall battery durability.

The one good reason for getting the bigger battery in the Slate, beyond real world range requirements for those who know in advance that they're going to need it, is that you will be cycling it less often. If you plan to own the vehicle for a very long time (a decade or two, not just a couple of years,) then pack longevity is a consideration. The fewer times you have to plug in to get those 10 or 15 grocery runs per charge, the longer your battery will last before it needs replacing.

I kept my 2006 F-150 for 15.5 years (bought in 2009), before buying a 2015 Nissan Altima in January. I plan on replacing this Altima with an EV around 2028.

 

[sodamo]

Benjamin
looking forward to see your candidates for charger/inverter vs Apex 300. A bit disappointed no native DC output as I’m hoping to augment the Slates 12DC for what ever I might add and maybe get a milage benefit if that 12vdc is external and not from Slate battery.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

All these companies -Bluetti, Ecoflow, Jackery, Anker, Pecron, DJI, etc. - have extensive product lines and make these solar generators in a bewildering assortment of sizes and styles. They also refresh their product lines fairly regularly and bring new ones to the market all the time.

The Apex 300 is notable in that it's the first, apparently, to require an add-on box to access DC output. I guess they figure that a unit weighing 84 pounds with 240VAC capability is going to mostly live near a house's service panel and that someone needing charge their cell phone is probably going to be wanting do that in the living room or bedroom.

For the interior of the Slate, find a smaller solar generator to keep your phone, tablet or laptop charged. I have a couple of these that I freely move around the house to wherever I need them . . .

The Bluetti EB3A is actually 3 years old now and, while I think they still offer it, it's been largely superceded in their product line by at least a couple of similarly-sized ones with slightly different features and other refinements. The competitors all offer their own versions in this carry-around size class. What you'll find is a different assortment of USB plugs, 12V interfaces and varying strengths on the inverter's AC output.

You could have something like this on the seat or floor next to you in the Slate. Or maybe there's already one that's porportioned perfectly to fit into the Slate's dashboard cavity. Hmmm . . .

 

[cvollers]

All these companies -Bluetti, Ecoflow, Jackery, Anker, Pecron, DJI, etc. - have extensive product lines and make these solar generators in a bewildering assortment of sizes and styles. They also refresh their product lines fairly regularly and bring new ones to the market all the time.

The Apex 300 is notable in that it's the first, apparently, to require an add-on box to access DC output. I guess they figure that a unit weighing 84 pounds with 240VAC capability is going to mostly live near a house's service panel and that someone needing charge their cell phone is probably going to be wanting do that in the living room or bedroom.

For the interior of the Slate, find a smaller solar generator to keep your phone, tablet or laptop charged. I have a couple of these that I freely move around the house to wherever I need them . . .

The Bluetti EB3A is actually 3 years old now and, while I think they still offer it, it's been largely superceded in their product line by at least a couple of similarly-sized ones with slightly different features and other refinements. The competitors all offer their own versions in this carry-around size class. What you'll find is a different assortment of USB plugs, 12V interfaces and varying strengths on the inverter's AC output.

You could have something like this on the seat or floor next to you in the Slate. Or maybe there's already one that's porportioned perfectly to fit into the Slate's dashboard cavity. Hmmm . . .

ICECO makes a nice little 250Wh battery pack with 12v, USB A, and USB C out. Charges off 12v in and most likely will fit in the dashboard cavity. I have one and use it to run my fridge, acting as a current step up converter off my Anker’s 5a/100w USB C out. Also has built in MPPT solar controller.

ICECO 250Wh Portable Power... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DG2SXXWB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[cvollers]

ICECO makes a nice little 250Wh battery pack with 12v, USB A, and USB C out. Charges off 12v in and most likely will fit in the dashboard cavity. I have one and use it to run my fridge, acting as a current step up converter off my Anker’s 5a/100w USB C out. Also has built in MPPT solar controller.

ICECO 250Wh Portable Power... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DG2SXXWB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I am also happy to report that now that we are into some very sunny days in western Washington, my two 100w PV panels on the top of my FJ's RTT are easily keeping my Anker Solix C1000 topped off while still allowing my fridge in the rig to run 24/7.

You might be wondering why I need a current step up for the fridge...why not just plug it into the Anker 12v (120w) out? Its because I need that 12v out for simultaneous DC loads that are higher than 5a...like my 7.5a water pump. I have a 4-circuit Blue Sea fuse block connected fulltime to the 12v out and the water pump is one of those circuits.

 

[GreatLakes]

Looks like you're going to have some fun! Me too.
...
Exact detailed yet to be determined, but the mental picture I'm currently drawing up would probably work around two or more of these sort of marine grade heated LFP packs . . .

https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/48v-50ah-heated-bluetooth-lifepo4-battery
...

Benjamin, thanks for all the info in this post! Lots to think about and further research.

Have you had good experiences with Epoch Batteries?
I've been watching what the truck camper people say, moving down in price range from Dakota to SOK, maybe LiTime?

My little project is a Specialized e-bike. 48V with about 500wh battery. I've only had the bike since December, been waiting for warmer weather for more riding (maybe July!). As near as I can tell, I can do at least 40 miles on a charge. I think a charge costs about 12 cents. So maybe cost per mile is a quarter penny?

There is a beautiful 100 mile paved bike trail a little bit south of me. I would like to be able to do a round trip on that without recharging. Or maybe 50 miles out, 50 back. Working up to it. Specialized sells a range extender, but it lists at about $400 for 350wh. I have a 48V 10ah battery (so ~500wh , 10 pounds) on order from a quality vendor. Not sure about what wiring/electronics I need to connect this battery to the bike. Not expecting too much help from Specialized. I was reading about a French company that is making a generic replacement battery for e-bikes, they are big on open-source. We'll see.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Yeah, I have an ICECO portable fridge/freezer that I like very much. This particular power station they make looks to be very good and I've considered purchasing one. Sometimes they go on sale and end up being a particularly good value in that size and performance class.

5 or 6 years ago, these sort of devices really didn't exist on the retail market. A lot of DIY people were basically building their own with LFP cells, BMS circuitry, MPPT controllers and inverters from a variety of sources. I've referenced Will Prowse in one of my other posts here. He took it upon himself to start a web forum to have people show themselves how to do it . . .

https://diysolarforum.com/members/will-prowse.1/

I started down the path of building my own and then, suddenly, just about the time the pandemic was lifting, the retail market literally exploded with pre-built versions of these things. So, I abandoned my slowly-evolving workbench project for a "store bought" solar generator. No regrets, though. I learned a lot about choosing proper wire gauges, matching components and proper wire crimping techniques. When I see a new product come to the market now, I have a technical perspective on how it works that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

[sodamo]

So at this point, I can’t really make a decisio, just explore the possibilities.

1. Go with the upgraded battery, cost unknown, as it would likely address all my concerns, possibly other benefits.

2. Explore the PV on roof, solar charger type battery such as Bluetti with DC capability. Total costs and configuration yet to be determined. I don’t have the challenge of supporting a fridge or other camping stuff. I am exploring some type of cooling fan for my dogs though.

3. Just go with the standard battery and tailor 12vdc add ons not to tax system. As for those few trips per year that would exceed the range, just use another vehicle At approx $50/trip, so likely $300/yr more or less. First glance, this may be lowest cost, but need the $$ involved and better understanding of battery size benefits. Could come down to just an economic decision.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Sort of a point-by-point reply here . . .

1. I wouldn't try to overthink it too much. Generally, I'd opt for a Truck with the biggest battery you can afford. Most of time, you'll want that battery for simply driving as far as you can go. If you're going to do a lot of 151 mile trips in a 150 mile range truck and simply can't afford the bigger battery, work on getting to know where public charging options exist. Plugshare in an excellent resource . . .

https://www.plugshare.com/

Remember, too, that simple and inexpensive adapters are made to pass 120V or 240V J1772 equipment into a vehicle with a Tesla-style J3400 connector, as will be found on the Slate Truck. On Plugshare's worldwide map, I'm seeing a lot of J1772 stations on the Big island, especially around the northwest coast.

2. Becoming a rolling off-grid solar-deployable supertruck is fun to talk about, but I don't have hard set plans just yet. I'd need the truck in front of me first and live with it for awhile before buying thousands of dollars worth of gear to bolt onto it. And, of course, that's going to be extra money beyond monthly payments on the truck itself. No harm, though, in thinking out loud on places like this and bouncing ideas off others.

3. Whatever size battery you get in the Truck, you can starting to experiment with smaller modular solar generators and carry-around PV panels. I'm going to assume at a bare minimum the Truck will come with at least a single USB-C port on the dashboard. This will probably be used by most for data transfer back and forth between a device and the Truck's computer. It would also be keeping the tiny battery inside the device charged. Electrical consumption for this is so minimal that it won't have any meaningful effect on the Truck's range.

But if you want to run an electric thermos for boiling coffee/tea water and even a small efficient cooking device for a single person meal, get a solar generator in the 250Wh range with a 600W inverter (ie; Bluetti EB3A or similar) and carry around a 100W PV panel with you. It's always good to get to know what entry level gear will do for you before buying the big solar rig.

Photo attached showing the i-MiEV next to a table-mounted 100W PV panel. There's an EB3A or two hiding in there someplace.

 

[AZFox]

1. I wouldn't try to overthink it too much. Generally, I'd opt for a Truck with the biggest battery you can afford. Most of time, you'll want that battery for simply driving as far as you can go. If you're going to do a lot of 151 mile trips in a 150 mile range truck and simply can't afford the bigger battery, work on getting to know where public charging options exist. Plugshare in an excellent resource . . .

Would Battery Longevity be another reason to go bigger with the battery?

Even if you don't plan on doing long trips a bigger battery provides ability to keep state-of-charge in the 20-80% range more easily.

Another reason might be because generally speaking it's just less taxing on each individual Battery Cell when there are more cells. 240/150=1.6, so there are 60% more cells doing the same amount of work. (Actually slightly more work because of the additional weight.)

Put another way, if you need to charge less frequently your cells will experience fewer charge cycles over time so they'll last longer.

Doh! 🤦‍♂️
My question has already been answered.

The one good reason for getting the bigger battery in the Slate, beyond real world range requirements for those who know in advance that they're going to need it, is that you will be cycling it less often. If you plan to own the vehicle for a very long time (a decade or two, not just a couple of years,) then pack longevity is a consideration. The fewer times you have to plug in to get those 10 or 15 grocery runs per charge, the longer your battery will last before it needs replacing.

Another question: Does the bigger, heavier battery reduce payload capacity? Seems like it would.