The ONE thing that I believe could actually cause Slate to fail...

[E90400K]

The idea of a "manual release" is incredibly counterintuitive since interior door releases have always been manual by default. The C6 Corvette had button release, but they at least had a manual latch on the floor. The Model S really started hiding the release. I only discovered that the rear doors had no physical latch on them when I was working on my 2015 and installing stereo equipment with the 12v disconnected. I just climbed out through the front. I later discovered the manual latch for the rear doors is hidden under the rear seats behind a carpeted panel just a couple inches wide. Even when I knew it was supposed to be there, it took a flashlight and some poking. Rivian isn't much better, hiding the manual latch behind a trim panel in the door itself. Again, completely hidden unless you know exactly what you're looking for. There is now actually legislation to mandate a more obvious manual override.

That all said, this is almost surely unrelated to the Slate which looks like it will just use plain manual door releases.

No worries though, the Slate has manual-crank windows... safe exit is guaranteed in the case of a missing 12V power supply.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

Schrodinger's Slate. It both is and isn't reliable until they actually sell a vehicle and we find out.

 

[E90400K]

Schrodinger's Slate. It both is and isn't reliable until they actually sell a vehicle and we find out.

It has three (3) moving parts... it will NEVER break!

 

[ElectricShitbox]

It has three (3) moving parts... it will NEVER break!

I break things with zero moving parts all the time.

 

[AmatuerX]

Yeah they have confirmed that, why is that an issue though? The largest auto-manufacture in the world (stellantis) and many others use them?

Let's just say I know too much. 😅 Without getting into too much detail, during the launch phase there were many manufacturing issues, and our sellable units were few. To be fair, it's been a few years since I left so let's hope they've got it figure out now.
I will say, my fellow JJENA engineers and I all agreed they have good designs. And from what I understand, JJE China is successful and makes quite a few EDM (Electronic Drive Module) units for a multitude of applications. So, there's still reason to hope. 😁

 

[IanNubbit]

This is just baloney.

The tax credit subsidy going away is a big detriment to the PRICE the buyer is going to pay for the Slate. Absolutely the tax credit subsidy going away didn't affect the original planned COST for Slate to manufacture the Truck, but it does affect the content-to-value ratio of the Truck. The low content meme of the Truck was originally planned in consideration of the $7,500 tax credit subsidy being in place. If it wasn't, Slate would not have made the effort to meet the IRA of 2022 requirements for CONUS manufacturing and especially the sourcing of US manufacturing and US mineral content requirements of the IRA of 2022. It's clear since the former CEO announced months ago Slate was looking to reduce parts and battery COSTS in order to make the Truck's PRICE as reasonable as possible to the prospective consumer to still consider the Slate.

Now that the tax credit subsidy is gone, the situation of Slate's content in relation to PRICE comes into play because there is competition in the marketplace based on price point. More important is performance. The Slate Truck doesn't hold a candle to the performance one can get from an extended cab 2x4 version of the Toyota Tacoma and Nissan Frontier. If the Slate's PRICE for a wrapped and 82 kWh battery Truck is near or above $30K, both the Tacoma and Frontier are its competition on Price and both have much better performance, especially with towing and bed size.

Idk alot of people cross shopping the slate for more content, I definitely don’t know anyone cross shopping it with a Mid-Size Pick-up. The only close competitor is the Telo thing, which is almost double the price, and the maverick which is a none EV.

Also idk where you live but in Jersey theres still $4,000 in incentives, plus not sales tax. So check with your local deals. That alone saves me over $5,500 if the vehicle costs 25k.

 

[IanNubbit]

Let's just say I know too much. 😅 Without getting into too much detail, during the launch phase there were many manufacturing issues, and our sellable units were few. To be fair, it's been a few years since I left so let's hope they've got it figure out now.
I will say, my fellow JJENA engineers and I all agreed they have good designs. And from what I understand, JJE China is successful and makes quite a few EDM (Electronic Drive Module) units for a multitude of applications. So, there's still reason to hope. 😁

My experience with them is in the Stellantis vehicles, and so far they are more reliable they the rest of the vehicle😂😂

 

[IanNubbit]

This concept of "off the shelf" making the Slate more reliable is a misnomer. I'll say an automobile engine, for example Ford's 2.3L EcoBoost, is an "off the shelf" part built with off the shelf components. When something is made in the quantity of millions, it is "off the shelf". Sure, you can't go buy a 2.3L EcoBoost sitting on a shelf at Walmart, but Ford makes around 1M 2.3L EcoBoost engines annually.

I get where you’re coming from, but the distinction here is the 2.3L was at one point brand new, engineered for years before release, and like any engine/part, there was growing pains for a few years, eventually worked out.

Now if another company asked ford, years after the 2.3L was out and on the road, proven, then that wouod be using an off-shelf engine. See multiple companies using the Eco-Tech motors over the last 10+ years to make small sports 3 wheelers and alike. Those companies didn’t have to develop an an engine from scratch, they used a known component, and can inherit that reliability to their platform, without playing the hope and money game of developing something from scratch

 

[ScooterAsheville]

It's the standard engineer lament. You design something solid. Then the bean counters take over. Crazily, I saw this as a software engineer. They took a five cent LED out of the disk drives for our high end enterprise storage units. And then we spent millions in man hours on the software side compensating for that when service time came around (because there was not a failure LED to show which drive out of hundreds had failed). We ended drawing maps of the system so the service engineer could find the drive. It was nuts. But some bean counter got a bigger quarterly bonus by removing that LED. He was happy!

Sandy Munro has a saying for this. "Don't try to save me money. I can't afford it.". I think they literally have a sign on the wall at Munro Associates.

 

[E90400K]

I get where you’re coming from, but the distinction here is the 2.3L was at one point brand new, engineered for years before release, and like any engine/part, there was growing pains for a few years, eventually worked out.

Now if another company asked ford, years after the 2.3L was out and on the road, proven, then that wouod be using an off-shelf engine. See multiple companies using the Eco-Tech motors over the last 10+ years to make small sports 3 wheelers and alike. Those companies didn’t have to develop an an engine from scratch, they used a known component, and can inherit that reliability to their platform, without playing the hope and money game of developing something from scratch

That is true for anything that is designed and produced, whether it is Timex watch at Walmart, or a Ford EcoBoost engine.

 

[E90400K]

Idk alot of people cross shopping the slate for more content, I definitely don’t know anyone cross shopping it with a Mid-Size Pick-up. The only close competitor is the Telo thing, which is almost double the price, and the maverick which is a none EV.

Also idk where you live but in Jersey theres still $4,000 in incentives, plus not sales tax. So check with your local deals. That alone saves me over $5,500 if the vehicle costs 25k.

Well, you don't know me personally, but I am one who is cross shopping the Slate with the Frontier. I'm awaiting the final pricing for the Slate. I know what I can buy a Nissan Frontier for; my biggest issue with the Slate is its tow rating, it is dismal for a pickup truck.

 

[IanNubbit]

Well, you don't know me personally, but I am one who is cross shopping the Slate with the Frontier. I'm awaiting the final pricing for the Slate. I know what I can buy a Nissan Frontier for; my biggest issue with the Slate is its tow rating, it is dismal for a pickup truck.

I feel like if you have to tow anything, or actually want standard features, the choice should be known already

 

[KevinRS]

Well, you don't know me personally, but I am one who is cross shopping the Slate with the Frontier. I'm awaiting the final pricing for the Slate. I know what I can buy a Nissan Frontier for; my biggest issue with the Slate is its tow rating, it is dismal for a pickup truck.

Yeah, if real towing is a concern, Slate is off the table. While there is a chance that in June along with other details they release detailed towing specs that might be somewhat higher depending on accessory combo, it isn't going to be doubled or anything. Maybe if they were conservative with the original number, fully kitted out gets 1000, but the bare slate wouldn't get more than a few hundred pounds more.
With any EV a big issue with towing is the range hit though. All vehicles take a range hit, but with gas you usually can just fill the tank back up more often. On a low range EV it's going to have a bigger impact.

 

[IanNubbit]

Yeah, if real towing is a concern, Slate is off the table. While there is a chance that in June along with other details they release detailed towing specs that might be somewhat higher depending on accessory combo, it isn't going to be doubled or anything. Maybe if they were conservative with the original number, fully kitted out gets 1000, but the bare slate wouldn't get more than a few hundred pounds more.
With any EV a big issue with towing is the range hit though. All vehicles take a range hit, but with gas you usually can just fill the tank back up more often. On a low range EV it's going to have a bigger impact.

The low tow rating has to come down to chassis design imo. Look at the photos of the chassis bare. With the way they have it, the frame gets sooooo much smaller likely weaker) after the cab, I'm assuming this is alot to do with crumple zones, but I feel this is greatly reducing potential towing. Even the new subaru EV tows 3k+ lbs, and only make like 300hp. Also don't forget it is very light weight, 3,600lbs before possible battery changes, but a maverick weight about the same and pulls double. Shoot even the wheelbase hurts towing as far as legality goes.

 

[KevinRS]

The low tow rating has to come down to chassis design imo. Look at the photos of the chassis bare. With the way they have it, the frame gets sooooo much smaller likely weaker) after the cab, I'm assuming this is alot to do with crumple zones, but I feel this is greatly reducing potential towing. Even the new subaru EV tows 3k+ lbs, and only make like 300hp. Also don't forget it is very light weight, 3,600lbs before possible battery changes, but a maverick weight about the same and pulls double. Shoot even the wheelbase hurts towing as far as legality goes.

I think they looked at reduced range when towing, then set the target at 1000 pounds, and designed everything for that limit. They could have put more weight into the chassis, heavier suspension, etc to get to 2k towing or higher, but then range without towing would go down some, and towing range might be 50 miles or less.