Who wants this battery in their blank Slate?

[gouacats]

For those that don't want to watch a 25 minute video like me:

https://insideevs.com/news/783463/first-solid-state-ev-sold-in-the-us/

 

[E90400K]

Their claims are not true - if it was cheaper, lighter and real, I'd be buying them by the GWh today. Usually they mean "could be" cheaper (if global manufacturing is scaled by 10,000%, no problems are found, and all raw material pricing stays at the 2018 level which is the last time they did the calculation), "could be" lighter (if the energy density scales linearly, the fire testing goes perfectly, etc.). The proof of the pudding is in the eating - if it did all those things I'd place a PO tomorrow (but guess what...).

I work in this industry, and one of our sayings is "there are liars, damned liars, and battery suppliers". You can't trust a single thing they say until you have units in hand.

That isn't to say that solid state batteries don't have a future, or that there are applications for NaIon or other options, but they have a massive scale-up to do, and are competing with extremely well established and refined NMC, NCA and LFP products.

The only truth I saw in the video was the presenter/CEO seems to be no stranger to eating doughnuts. Just sayin' (and I'm one to talk - LOL).

 

[1yeliab_sufur1]

Ok looked at the website they are claiming 400Wh/kg, and lowers cost and tell anyone can get there hands on these batteries no one knows nothing in tell there is clear evidence that shows there lying or telling the truth personally I’ll take them at there word seeing as how they do have another product that does live up to its specs

 

[E90400K]

I mean, he did pull a shiny cell right out of his back pocket!

 

[gouacats]

You can place a reservation ($100) for the bike on the Verge website with an estimated delivery of Q1 2026. Since that is within the next few months, they better have a product to deliver shortly. I can't imagine that these are imaginary at this point.

 

[cadblu]

The only truth I saw in the video was the presenter/CEO seems to be no stranger to eating doughnuts. Just sayin' (and I'm one to talk - LOL).

Hey Marko: You caught my attention with Donut Lab. Then I found out it was about solid-state batteries. Tell me about the donuts....

 

[phidauex]

No, I'm sorry, it is somewhere between outright fraud, or a massive smokescreen over a minor improvement. In all likelihood they are planning to buy small quantities of pre-production cells from a Chinese supplier and hand solder them into a couple of motorcycle battery packs to say they checked the box.

For those of you who are new to the battery world, the number of these types of claims is astounding - every month someone has revolutionized the industry and solved every problem with batteries, with no drawbacks whatsoever. Sound too good to be true?

Not to mention the fact that if this was a real product we'd have UL listings, DOT certs, etc. There would be technical documentation available, etc. There would be research papers and patents, there would be test modules at independent labs being verified (it takes a long time to test something to 100,000 cycles, you know), etc.

I'd love for it to be true, but trust me, it is not.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

I'm a huge doubter, but I love the fact that they're saying "deliveries this quarter". So if it's real, it's real. If it's baloney, it's baloney. And we're not gonna have to wait long to know one way or the other. It's been agony on this Slate forum, as all of us keep making up fantasy narratives about whether Slate will thrive or fail - and the answer is literally two years away.

BTW, I just watched an Autoline visit to this booth at CES. John was talking with the Watt folks. It was really interesting. I was one of many who asked Autoline to visit the Donut booth and see if they pass the Autoline BS filter. Hoping he does a video on the battery too.

https://www.autoline.tv/uncategorized/watts-low-cost-low-volume-ev-platform-ces-2026/

 

[KevinRS]

The thing with any battery tech, really any energy storage or fuel, is an amount of energy is that amount of potential energy whatever you do with it.
This is why batteries, as well as gas tanks can catch fire or explode. Any claim to store more in a smaller size or with less weight means even more work is needed to do that safely, and not have all that energy come out at once in the form of fire. Sure solid state batteries may be the future, but they've just about got to be a few years out at the least from making it to consumer 4 wheeled vehicles.

 

[bloo]

It's a supercapacitor.

 

[AZFox]

I know nothing about the battery industry, but from my limited/outsider perspective, battery tech today seems to be just like the RAM and HD advances in the 80s and 90s.

+1
IMHO the monumental demand for better battery technology will (eventually) lead to monumental breakthroughs.

 

[phidauex]

+1
IMHO the monumental demand for better battery technology will (eventually) lead to monumental breakthroughs.

It will, and is, but the extremely high volume of production needed means that it is less like inventing new personal electronics type technology, and more a matter of manufacturing scale up technology, supply chain, and logistics. There are lots of great battery technologies that work in the lab, but can't be cost effectively scaled up.

Safety and reliability are also incredibly hard to get right. Again, lots of options that work in the lab, but making them reliable (and PROVING that they are reliable) is a huge undertaking, and most companies never get it right. Modern NMC, NCA and LFP batteries are not perfect, but considering the volumes they are made in, they are extremely reliable, long lasting, and energy dense.

Other technologies will beat it, but it will take longer than most people think, and generally improvements in one area will mean a tradeoff somewhere else. For instance, sodium ion batteries work in a wider temperature range, but are less energy dense. Or metal hydrogen batteries are extremely cheap, but offer very low C-rates.

The company I work for buys many GWhs of NMC and LFP batteries per year, and we have supply agreements with many major manufacturers. When someone has something better, I'll buy it, but the burden of proof is very high, and so far, no one has been able to create a solution that has better levelized cost of storage for our applications.

 

[E90400K]

You can place a reservation ($100) for the bike on the Verge website with an estimated delivery of Q1 2026. Since that is within the next few months, they better have a product to deliver shortly. I can't imagine that these are imaginary at this point.

Yeah, but it's a joke. $30,000. Lol.

Not a D-measuring contest, but Verge's standard bike states "737 pound-feet of torque and a 0-60 miles per hour time of just 3.5 seconds." Sounds IMPRESSIVE.

Most 600 CC sport bikes easily do 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds. Their torque numbers are around just 50 pound feet. They cost well under $15K.

The point is you can apply only a certain amount of torque on the rear tire patch of a motorcycle before it becomes ridiculous overkill.

 

[ScooterAsheville]

It will, and is, but the extremely high volume of production needed means that it is less like inventing new personal electronics type technology, and more a matter of manufacturing scale up technology, supply chain, and logistics. There are lots of great battery technologies that work in the lab, but can't be cost effectively scaled up.

Safety and reliability are also incredibly hard to get right. Again, lots of options that work in the lab, but making them reliable (and PROVING that they are reliable) is a huge undertaking, and most companies never get it right. Modern NMC, NCA and LFP batteries are not perfect, but considering the volumes they are made in, they are extremely reliable, long lasting, and energy dense.

Other technologies will beat it, but it will take longer than most people think, and generally improvements in one area will mean a tradeoff somewhere else. For instance, sodium ion batteries work in a wider temperature range, but are less energy dense. Or metal hydrogen batteries are extremely cheap, but offer very low C-rates.

The company I work for buys many GWhs of NMC and LFP batteries per year, and we have supply agreements with many major manufacturers. When someone has something better, I'll buy it, but the burden of proof is very high, and so far, no one has been able to create a solution that has better levelized cost of storage for our applications.

What you just said is what I have heard from many inside the industry. I have a friend who spent a lifetime career in batteries. He gives me this lecture every time I show him some exciting news release. His favorite saying is, "Tell me what ten characteristics you want in a battery, and I'll give you nine of them".

 

[Johnny5]

Something I've riffed on for years about the EV industry; it's really hart to be completely honest when you know exactly what your audience wants to hear.