PSA: Extended Range Battery can NOT be added / retrofit installed after purchase (confirmed by Slate)

[sodamo]

I don’t know how many chargers the island is going to have, or what ungodly price they will charge you, but since you really only need to get a few more miles out of the deal you will likely be able to use almost any on the way there or back, and for a pretty brief period of time.

I don’t know how SLATE will do it, but most EVs have a nav system that given your desired destination will make a charging plan, and many take into account current usage and weather the chargers have been reported as working or broken. I know SLATE says they won’t have a touch screen at all, but you can mount a phone or tablet, my guess is they will have an app you can use to do the same job, and if not you might be able to use ABRP to do it (ABRP will require you spend like $7/month or something to get real time data on the chargers though). So you ought to know before you set out if Costco’s chargers are _working_ and if whatever charger it originally decided to send you to gets “too busy” it should offer you a new plan with a charger that is less busy.

You shouldn’t need to “hunt” for anything. It should point you right at a parking lot that has working chargers of the right type and aren’t full (except it likely can’t tell if non EVs are parked in front of some of the spots...maybe the slate can off road well enough to go on the grass on the other side and plug in...)

So, it appears I am the problem.just not flexible enough.
our typical Costco run
leave house by 7:30 am
stop in Waimea at McD for coffee, maybe a breakfast sandwich. Nope no chargers within walking distance of McD.
arrive Costco 9:30/. 9:45. Yup they do have a single chargers. I”ll have to start paying attention whether in use.
usually spent our $700+ by 11:30
lately been taking advantage of the food court
head home, now if I should need a charge Walmart and Target, maybe a few others within a few miles, so yes I could hope one of those is free, plug in and just twindle my thumbs as I charge. No, having just spent $700+ I don’t need to shop more.
often make a pit stop in Waimea again, but no chargers that side of street either.
usually get home 2:30 ish to unload, put stuff away. Our dogs tell us we’ve been gone long enough. Too warm Konaside to take them and leave in parking lot.
no, looking (hunting) for a charger and adding another half hour isn’t something I chose to do.

have a friend, lives a bit closer and quite anxious her 1st Costco trip with her new Nissan Leaf, regen saved the day. Maybe that will be benefit for me.

 

[Blackspots76]

You have ABRP and Plugshare for finding where chargers are.

 

[metroshot]

So, it appears I am the problem.just not flexible enough.
our typical Costco run
leave house by 7:30 am
stop in Waimea at McD for coffee, maybe a breakfast sandwich. Nope no chargers within walking distance of McD.
arrive Costco 9:30/. 9:45. Yup they do have a single chargers. I”ll have to start paying attention whether in use.
usually spent our $700+ by 11:30
lately been taking advantage of the food court
head home, now if I should need a charge Walmart and Target, maybe a few others within a few miles, so yes I could hope one of those is free, plug in and just twindle my thumbs as I charge. No, having just spent $700+ I don’t need to shop more.
often make a pit stop in Waimea again, but no chargers that side of street either.
usually get home 2:30 ish to unload, put stuff away. Our dogs tell us we’ve been gone long enough. Too warm Konaside to take them and leave in parking lot.
no, looking (hunting) for a charger and adding another half hour isn’t something I chose to do.

have a friend, lives a bit closer and quite anxious her 1st Costco trip with her new Nissan Leaf, regen saved the day. Maybe that will be benefit for me.

You do know that there are Tesla Superchargers on the island of Hawaii ?

We rented a Tesla from the airport and charged a lot at Tesla Superchargers at
5000 Kahala Avenue in Honolulu.

Hoping Slate will arrange access to Tesla Superchargers as that will be my main reason to get one.

For my Ford EV, I always charge at Tesla due to the lower rate I pay as a member.

 

[Bull Moose]

Did I have to indicate that I did or did not want the extended battery when I made the reservation? I cannot remember!

 

[AZFox]

Did I have to indicate that I did or did not want the extended battery when I made the reservation? I cannot remember!

No worries. It's Reserve Now, Configure Later

 

[skidoofast]

Not sure how it would ever work but it would be nice to have suit case batteries that you could drop in the box (2 or 4) to extend the range even further, add weight for the winter and/or get you just a bit further to the charging station when you push it too far

kind of like the ryobi zero turn mowers

 

[Benjamin Nead]

I've been driving a 16kWh battery car with an EPA rated range of 65 miles per charge for a decade now. 8 years after it was built (5 years into my used vehicle ownership experience,) the original pack began to fade in capacity. Since I was the 2nd owner - and traction battery warranties are typically transferable - I was able to procure a replacement pack for free. I assume this replacement pack will last as least as long as the original, probably longer. If so, I'll still be able to drive that car to it's fullest range potential in 2028, 16 years after it left the factory.

Some perspective on battery size . . .

No matter how large the battery, there will always be someone who will tell you that what you have or want isn't large enough. If that person has structured their lifestyle around 350 mile daily work commutes (someone actually told me they do that on an online forum once,) tell them "OK, thanks" and move on.

If you're moving from a fossil fueler, spend some time evaluating you daily driving needs. Account for special circumstances, such as occassional scheduled longer distance trips, and work that into your calculations. If those longer trips are whoppers (500 mile journey, preferrably a non-stop run, but only once a year) then consider renting a vehicle for that single annual occassion and don't factor that in. I think it was determined many years ago that the average US auto owner drives about or less than 40 miles daily. When I self-surveyed myself, I found I drive far less than that.

If your daily driving needs are matching projected range-per-charge figures of the EV you're considering, then, yes, get one with a bigger battery. Account for the fact that it's not healthy for the battery to be cycled from near empty to full every single time. This is especially true with the nickel manganese cobalt (NMC) cells Slate will be using. These batteries last longest if cycled from about 20% to 80% capacity consistently.

So, the 150 mile battery in the entry trim Slate really should be consistently good for 90 mile driving sessions (multiple 5 to 10 mile trips to and from the local grocery store) before recharging. Likewise, the 240 mile pack is realistically (again, if you are concerned with the longest possible service life) a 144 mile pack. Of course you can push these limits by moving beyond the 20% to 80% cycling rule every now and then. But you (or, more specifically, the battery) will eventually suffer from capacity faded if you do this all the time.

I'm going to opt for the large (240 mile) pack on my Slate, even though I'll be making 5 to 10 miles drives most days. But several times a year, I now need to make a single day 60 mile round trip. In the i-MiEV, that means a charge to 100% before leaving home and relying on public charging for the return leg. With the entry level Slate (150 mile pack,) my 60 mile round trip is well within healthy limits of 90 miles on a single 20 to 80% charge.

With the 150 mile Slate pack, I can also technically make a 120 mile one way (overnight stay) journey that would have been tedious and impractical with the i-MiEV. More desirable, though, would be to have the ability to do that within the 20 to 80% (144 mile) charging window of the Slate's larger 240 mile pack. This is especially true if I soon find myself wanting to do this more than a few times a year.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Not sure how it would ever work but it would be nice to have suit case batteries that you could drop in the box (2 or 4) to extend the range even further, add weight for the winter and/or get you just a bit further to the charging station when you push it too far

kind of like the ryobi zero turn mowers

There are now portable power stations (LFP battery, inverter output, solar and/or AC charging options in a single box) that could fit this bill. The newest one from Bluetti (I own some of their units, but I'm not a professional endorser) is called the Apex 300. It's able to store about 2.7kWh on LFP cells and the inverter's outpt can be toggled between 120V and 240V.

This wouldn't be something to could patch into the vehicle and it automatically adds to the main battery's capacity while driving. It's a stand alone device. You'd have to stop the car, park and plug in an EVSE to charge the vehicle. And 2.7kWh on a Slate might only amount to 6 or 7 miles. So, you'd want to think of something like this as an electrical stand-in for a jerry can. But 240V on the output (that's what new with this one) means a roadside emergency charging session would go fairly quickly . . .

 

[sodamo]

I've been driving a 16kWh battery car with an EPA rated range of 65 miles per charge for a decade now. 8 years after it was built (5 years into my used vehicle ownership experience,) the original pack began to fade in capacity. Since I was the 2nd owner - and traction battery warranties are typically transferable - I was able to procure a replacement pack for free. I assume this replacement pack will last as least as long as the original, probably longer. If so, I'll still be able to drive that car to it's fullest range potential in 2028, 16 years after it left the factory.

Some perspective on battery size . . .

No matter how large the battery, there will always be someone who will tell you that what you have or want isn't large enough. If that person has structured their lifestyle around 350 mile daily work commutes (someone actually told me they do that on an online forum once,) tell them "OK, thanks" and move on.

If you're moving from a fossil fueler, spend some time evaluating you daily driving needs. Account for special circumstances, such as occassional scheduled longer distance trips, and work that into your calculations. If those longer trips are whoppers (500 mile journey, preferrably a non-stop run, but only once a year) then consider renting a vehicle for that single annual occassion and don't factor that in. I think it was determined many years ago that the average US auto owner drives about or less than 40 miles daily. When I self-surveyed myself, I found I drive far less than that.

If your daily driving needs are matching projected range-per-charge figures of the EV you're considering, then, yes, get one with a bigger battery. Account for the fact that it's not healthy for the battery to be cycled from near empty to full every single time. This is especially true with the nickel manganese cobalt (NMC) cells Slate will be using. These batteries last longest if cycled from about 20% to 80% capacity consistently.

So, the 150 mile battery in the entry trim Slate really should be consistently good for 90 mile driving sessions (multiple 5 to 10 mile trips to and from the local grocery store) before recharging. Likewise, the 240 mile pack is realistically (again, if you are concerned with the longest possible service life) a 144 mile pack. Of course you can push these limits by moving beyond the 20% to 80% cycling rule every now and then. But you (or, more specifically, the battery) will eventually suffer from capacity faded if you do this all the time.

I'm going to opt for the large (240 mile) pack on my Slate, even though I'll be making 5 to 10 miles drives most days. But several times a year, I now need to make a single day 60 mile round trip. In the i-MiEV, that means a charge to 100% before leaving home and relying on public charging for the return leg. With the entry level Slate (150 mile pack,) my 60 mile round trip is well within healthy limits of 90 miles on a single 20 to 80% charge.

With the 150 mile Slate pack, I can also technically make a 120 mile one way (overnight stay) journey that would have been tedious and impractical with the i-MiEV. More desirable, though, would be to have the ability to do that within the 20 to 80% (144 mile) charging window of the Slate's larger 240 mile pack. This is especially true if I soon find myself wanting to do this more than a few times a year.

Excellent

 

[sodamo]

There are now portable power stations (LFP battery, inverter output, solar and/or AC charging options in a single box) that could fit this bill. The newest one from Bluetti (I own some of their units, but I'm not a professional endorser) is called the Apex 300. It's able to store about 2.7kWh on LFP cells and the inverter's outpt can be toggled between 120V and 240V.

This wouldn't be something to could patch into the vehicle and it automatically adds to the main battery's capacity while driving. It's a stand alone device. You'd have to stop the car, park and plug in an EVSE to charge the vehicle. And 2.7kWh on a Slate might only amount to 6 or 7 miles. So, you'd want to think of something like this as an electrical stand-in for a jerry can. But 240V on the output (that's what new with this one) means a roadside emergency charging session would go fairly quickly . . .

Would love to hear more of your experiences with this. Could be what I’m looking for, something I can plug in to my solar at home and then take with me to plug in to my Slate mounted panels. Also gives me great hope what else might be available in a year or so.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

Would love to hear more of your experiences with this. Could be what I’m looking for, something I can plug in to my solar at home and then take with me to plug in to my Slate mounted panels. Also gives me great hope what else might be available in a year or so.

Solar panels mounted on the Slate? Yes, we're reading each other's minds. There are lots of different ways that something like this could play out. Certainly more than could be put into a single post. I'll start with detailing how to charge the i-MiEV with (relatively) portable off-grid solar on a budget.

The photo shows the i-MiEV at the March 2024 Tucson Festival of Books in the Science City display area. The idea I was demonstrating was basically how I could bring everything I needed in back of the car, set it up without electrocuting myself and actually make it work. The illustration provides the technical details.

Briefly, I was bringing in roughly 600W via the 6 PV panels, using a Growatt Infinity 1300 MPPT/battery/inverter interface (ie: power station, solar generator, what have you) and outputting that same ~6 amps as 120V alternating current that the EVSE would recognize, pumping that into the car.

As long as the Sun is shining brightly, I can maintain that roughly 1-to-1 input-to-output ratio for around 5 to 6 hours. As soon as the Sun sets, the approximately 1.3kWh in the Growatt's battery keeps the electrical flow going into the car for another couple of hours. Optimistically, it would probably take a couple of bright sunny days in succession to charge the i-MiEV's 16kWh from near empty to near full.

One limiting factor on these small power stations (or solar generators, as I like to call them) is the maximum amount of voltage that can be accepted at the DC/MPPT input. The medium-sized ones might only be able to handle 60V. I picked the Growatt because is was relatively compact, not too heavy (around 40 pounds,) and could accept up to 100V DC.

If you wire 3 of these 115W Renogy bifacial panels like I'm using here together in series, you might get anywhere between 60 to 75V. But 4 panels configured this way might push you too close to the Growatt's 100V threshold. At best, you'd be tripping the breaker constantly and interrupting electrical flow before everything (hopefully) resets automatically. At worst, it's possible to burn up the MPPT's circuitry.

The other electrical consideration is that these solar generators have a floating ground and simply plugging in the EVSE on the AC output side will indicate a ground fault, prevening you from charging your car. A simple combination of a splitter cable and a ground bonding plug "tricks" the EVSE into thinking it's plugged into a standard grid-connected grounded receptical.

I've got 10 of these Renogy panels and now have a more suitable solar generator: a Bluetti AC200L, which allows up to 145V on the MPPT input side and a battery that around 2kWh in capacity. To speed things up, I can configure 5 panels in series on 2 parallel strings (5S2P) for a realistic 1kW input/output. I can then set the EVSE to 8 or even 10 amps, speeding up the EV charging sequence considerably.

Lots more to say about solar charging an EV. I've watched closely what Aptera, Sono and Lightyear have been doing to fully integrate it into the car itself . . . and I'm a big fan. An off-grid solar carport charging a standard EV is what I've reproduced with my portable experiments, but on a smaller scale. And anyone with grid-tied rooftop solar (I'm in that club now) can essentially charge off the Sun, simply by plugging the EVSE into any standard 120V receptical on a sunny day.

And, yes, I've got lots of ideas on how one can turn a Slate EV Truck into a relatively powerful portable solar generator on wheels, complete with easily deployable PV panels, capable of patching into a house's service panel to provide emergency home backup power for extended periods, or simply being able to bring sustainable and self-generating electricity to just about any unshaded place you can park.

Anything I would be doing along these lines, for sake of economy and not wanting to challenge the vehicle's electrical system warranty. It would involve building an autonomous system with separate batteries that doesn't directly integrate with the truck's traction battery. I can't, for instance, charge from the PV panels mounted on the vehicle while driving (like the Aptera, etc.) But I can park, deploy the panels and charge the vehicle while stationary.

More to come on this wide ranging topic . . .

 

[cvollers]

Solar panels mounted on the Slate? Yes, we're reading each other's minds. There are lots of different ways that something like this could play out. Certainly more than could be put into a single post. I'll start with detailing how to charge the i-MiEV with (relatively) portable off-grid solar on a budget.

The photo shows the i-MiEV at the March 2024 Tucson Festival of Books in the Science City display area. The idea I was demonstrating was basically how I could bring everything I needed in back of the car, set it up without electrocuting myself and actually make it work. The illustration provides the technical details.

Briefly, I was bringing in roughly 600W via the 6 PV panels, using a Growatt Infinity 1300 MPPT/battery/inverter interface (ie: power station, solar generator, what have you) and outputting that same ~6 amps as 120V alternating current that the EVSE would recognize, pumping that into the car.

As long as the Sun is shining brightly, I can maintain that roughly 1-to-1 input-to-output ratio for around 5 to 6 hours. As soon as the Sun sets, the approximately 1.3kWh in the Growatt's battery keeps the electrical flow going into the car for another couple of hours. Optimistically, it would probably take a couple of bright sunny days in succession to charge the i-MiEV's 16kWh from near empty to near full.

One limiting factor on these small power stations (or solar generators, as I like to call them) is the maximum amount of voltage that can be accepted at the DC/MPPT input. The medium-sized ones might only be able to handle 60V. I picked the Growatt because is was relatively compact, not too heavy (around 40 pounds,) and could accept up to 100V DC.

If you wire 3 of these 115W Renogy bifacial panels like I'm using here together in series, you might get anywhere between 60 to 75V. But 4 panels configured this way might push you too close to the Growatt's 100V threshold. At best, you'd be tripping the breaker constantly and interrupting electrical flow before everything (hopefully) resets automatically. At worst, it's possible to burn up the MPPT's circuitry.

The other electrical consideration is that these solar generators have a floating ground and simply plugging in the EVSE on the AC output side will indicate a ground fault, prevening you from charging your car. A simple combination of a splitter cable and a ground bonding plug "tricks" the EVSE into thinking it's plugged into a standard grid-connected grounded receptical.

I've got 10 of these Renogy panels and now have a more suitable solar generator: a Bluetti AC200L, which allows up to 145V on the MPPT input side and a battery that around 2kWh in capacity. To speed things up, I can configure 5 panels in series on 2 parallel strings (5S2P) for a realistic 1kW input/output. I can then set the EVSE to 8 or even 10 amps, speeding up the EV charging sequence considerably.

Lots more to say about solar charging an EV. I've watched closely what Aptera, Sono and Lightyear have been doing to fully integrate it into the car itself . . . and I'm a big fan. An off-grid solar carport charging a standard EV is what I've reproduced with my portable experiments, but on a smaller scale. And anyone with grid-tied rooftop solar (I'm in that club now) can essentially charge off the Sun, simply by plugging the EVSE into any standard 120V receptical on a sunny day.

And, yes, I've got lots of ideas on how one can turn a Slate EV Truck into a relatively powerful portable solar generator on wheels, complete with easily deployable PV panels, capable of patching into a house's service panel to provide emergency home backup power for extended periods, or simply being able to bring sustainable and self-generating electricity to just about any unshaded place you can park.

Anything I would be doing along these lines, for sake of economy and not wanting to challenge the vehicle's electrical system warranty. It would involve building an autonomous system with separate batteries that doesn't directly integrate with the truck's traction battery. I can't, for instance, charge from the PV panels mounted on the vehicle while driving (like the Aptera, etc.) But I can park, deploy the panels and charge the vehicle while stationary.

More to come on this wide ranging topic . . .

Really good stuff. People reading should be aware that wiring solar panels in series makes the voltage additive while doing it in parallel makes the current (amperage) additive. The higher the current, the thicker the cables need to be to handle the heat. Typically, LFP power stations like more voltage to generate more charging power (watts) rather than more current. It is a known problem amongst overlanders that trying to charge power stations off a vehicle alternator without some form of voltage step up converter is a recipe for frustration. Just way too slow.

I could easily see having a solar generator trailer (less than 1000 pounds) to drag around behind a Slate. Park it in the sun, deploy the PV panels, and plug the AC output into the Slate charging port (with appropriate grounding). I might even put AT tires and a RTT on it and take it camping.

 

[DanDibs58]

Would this be your first EV? My suggestion for first timers is go big or go home. Range anxiety can be a killer for some folks

Only until you actually have an EV, then it's no big deal. As you probably know.

 

[DanDibs58]

You do know that there are Tesla Superchargers on the island of Hawaii ?

We rented a Tesla from the airport and charged a lot at Tesla Superchargers at
5000 Kahala Avenue in Honolulu.

Hoping Slate will arrange access to Tesla Superchargers as that will be my main reason to get one.

For my Ford EV, I always charge at Tesla due to the lower rate I pay as a member.

That's on Oahu. @sodamo lives on the Big Island. No superchargers there. #geography

 

[sodamo]

Solar panels mounted on the Slate? Yes, we're reading each other's minds. There are lots of different ways that something like this could play out. Certainly more than could be put into a single post. I'll start with detailing how to charge the i-MiEV with (relatively) portable off-grid solar on a budget.

The photo shows the i-MiEV at the March 2024 Tucson Festival of Books in the Science City display area. The idea I was demonstrating was basically how I could bring everything I needed in back of the car, set it up without electrocuting myself and actually make it work. The illustration provides the technical details.

Briefly, I was bringing in roughly 600W via the 6 PV panels, using a Growatt Infinity 1300 MPPT/battery/inverter interface (ie: power station, solar generator, what have you) and outputting that same ~6 amps as 120V alternating current that the EVSE would recognize, pumping that into the car.

As long as the Sun is shining brightly, I can maintain that roughly 1-to-1 input-to-output ratio for around 5 to 6 hours. As soon as the Sun sets, the approximately 1.3kWh in the Growatt's battery keeps the electrical flow going into the car for another couple of hours. Optimistically, it would probably take a couple of bright sunny days in succession to charge the i-MiEV's 16kWh from near empty to near full.

One limiting factor on these small power stations (or solar generators, as I like to call them) is the maximum amount of voltage that can be accepted at the DC/MPPT input. The medium-sized ones might only be able to handle 60V. I picked the Growatt because is was relatively compact, not too heavy (around 40 pounds,) and could accept up to 100V DC.

If you wire 3 of these 115W Renogy bifacial panels like I'm using here together in series, you might get anywhere between 60 to 75V. But 4 panels configured this way might push you too close to the Growatt's 100V threshold. At best, you'd be tripping the breaker constantly and interrupting electrical flow before everything (hopefully) resets automatically. At worst, it's possible to burn up the MPPT's circuitry.

The other electrical consideration is that these solar generators have a floating ground and simply plugging in the EVSE on the AC output side will indicate a ground fault, prevening you from charging your car. A simple combination of a splitter cable and a ground bonding plug "tricks" the EVSE into thinking it's plugged into a standard grid-connected grounded receptical.

I've got 10 of these Renogy panels and now have a more suitable solar generator: a Bluetti AC200L, which allows up to 145V on the MPPT input side and a battery that around 2kWh in capacity. To speed things up, I can configure 5 panels in series on 2 parallel strings (5S2P) for a realistic 1kW input/output. I can then set the EVSE to 8 or even 10 amps, speeding up the EV charging sequence considerably.

Lots more to say about solar charging an EV. I've watched closely what Aptera, Sono and Lightyear have been doing to fully integrate it into the car itself . . . and I'm a big fan. An off-grid solar carport charging a standard EV is what I've reproduced with my portable experiments, but on a smaller scale. And anyone with grid-tied rooftop solar (I'm in that club now) can essentially charge off the Sun, simply by plugging the EVSE into any standard 120V receptical on a sunny day.

And, yes, I've got lots of ideas on how one can turn a Slate EV Truck into a relatively powerful portable solar generator on wheels, complete with easily deployable PV panels, capable of patching into a house's service panel to provide emergency home backup power for extended periods, or simply being able to bring sustainable and self-generating electricity to just about any unshaded place you can park.

Anything I would be doing along these lines, for sake of economy and not wanting to challenge the vehicle's electrical system warranty. It would involve building an autonomous system with separate batteries that doesn't directly integrate with the truck's traction battery. I can't, for instance, charge from the PV panels mounted on the vehicle while driving (like the Aptera, etc.) But I can park, deploy the panels and charge the vehicle while stationary.

More to come on this wide ranging topic . . .

Excellent stuff and meshes with my thinking. I can learn a lot from you.
taken from my email to Bluetti:

I am completely off grid, more traditional, old style Outback solar system.
4 PV arrays approx 4.4 kw each, fixed orientation
4 FM80 charge controllers
2 GS 8048 Radian inverters
57 Kw LiFePo battery bank
No microinverters
No grid
Not a 500VDC system, 48VDC

Ideally I’d like to charge from 1 of my PV array, either by diversion, or preferably share to utilize excess production. This would be daytime, sun-shining only. Probably average 5+ hours. Level 1 initially, Level 2 at some point. This would be more top off charging than full on everyday type. Might be possible to split off 2400w, have to look. Would not be looking at the 500v.
I do NOT want to use my Inverters or tap into my battery bank. Basically, other than the PV, keep my house system separate. Sounds like another alternative might be install 2400 PV separately.

It appears i can do so with your Apex 300. Perhaps a new adventure, I’d love to see this direct DC to DC charging bypassing the battery, but don’t see that product exists, but would be a good market. Need a beta tester?

Secondarily, I see your system is available bundled with own 200 PV for charging. This suggests to me I’d be able to drive my Slate across island and recharge as it sits in the Costco parking lot 2 hours. How many kwh? Very sunny in Kailua Kona. I can see that benefit enhanced with roof mounted PV.

awaiting their response

I should add, you sound much more technically capable than me 😁 Ilike the idea of the Apex 300 being 240 capable. At first I didn’t realize the battery was separate, but makes sense I guess and some flexibility.