How do you feel about Slate's towing capacity?

[Bayfire2441]

Slate has said they are aiming for a towing capacity of 1k pounds.

 

[Bayfire2441]

From my very brief research on the topic yesterday, my understanding is manufacturers of commercial trucks (i.e. those with DOT numbers on the doors) have a legal compliance to certify to weight ratings and manufacturers of light-duty trucks (i.e. consumer pickup trucks like an F150) do not have a legal certification requirement. I'll review the FMVSS when I get time to verify.

But what I have said a few times now, is if a Slate customer wants a higher tow capacity, Slate can offer at additional price a DIY tow kit with the necessary equipment/software (if necessary) that upgrades the Slate Truck to the higher capacity. The kit would include a new weight rating sticker. Slate can provide the sticker with the kit knowing the installed equipment meets their engineering design requirements for the higher weight rating. This is no different than if the equipment was installed on the Truck during the assembly process. And no different than Slate being able to certify the DIY SUV kit meets all Federal passenger safety regulations. If you recall, Slate states the SUV kit has some sort of electronic lockout if the seats are installed without the airbags. There is no reason Slate can't do the same with the Tow Kit. My thought would be the kit must include a trailer brake controller (i.e. 7-pin connector) that must be recognized by the body or drive motor controller in order for the kit to work.

Adding the topic of a kit for Slate to add which would increase the towing capscity. I feel like this discussion would make more sense here.

Anyway, from my perspective, the SUV kit is very much a different thing. From what I am reading, the NHTSA does not permit a manufacturer to change weight ratings after a vehicle has been sold to a consumer. As such, I don't think Slate can increase the towing capacity after a sale is made and have it legally binding as to not be a liability issue.

 

[CorvusCorvax]

I have no interest in towing anything. I suppose I might use one of those hitch receiver-mounted bike racks for when my wife and I go trail riding, but that would be the limit of use for even the receiver. If I have need of transporting anything larger than the Slate can hold, I'll rent the proper vehicle. Since that sort of things happens *maybe* once every couple of years, I don't see a need to run a vehicle with that capacity/capability.

 

[JoeBlow-Kokomo]

You can't make a "light duty" pickup then expect it do the stuff that full sized pickups do. Electric motors heat up during times of heavy load. EV bicycles will shut down from thermal protection sometimes riding in hilly places. 200 hp is solid but not exceptional power. Towing 4,000lbs or whatever with it, might force it to work hard enough to seriously drain your range. That being such a HUGE factor for SO MANY people, I don't think you want to drop it lower to have a better tow rating. Not to mention beefing up the bracing structure, brakes, tires and steering members. to support a heavier tow rating, and then haul all that extra mass around 100% of the time. For the 1% that will use that.....
It's like having to have AWD when you get snow 3 times a year. Or for driving in the rain.
Makes 0 sense.
Buy a bigger truck............

 

[Bayfire2441]

You can't make a "light duty" pickup then expect it do the stuff that full sized pickups do. Electric motors heat up during times of heavy load. EV bicycles will shut down from thermal protection sometimes riding in hilly places. 200 hp is solid but not exceptional power. Towing 4,000lbs or whatever with it, might force it to work hard enough to seriously drain your range. That being such a HUGE factor for SO MANY people, I don't think you want to drop it lower to have a better tow rating. Not to mention beefing up the bracing structure, brakes, tires and steering members. to support a heavier tow rating, and then haul all that extra mass around 100% of the time. For the 1% that will use that.....
It's like having to have AWD when you get snow 3 times a year. Or for driving in the rain.
Makes 0 sense.
Buy a bigger truck............

I can't argue any of the specifics of course, considering we don't know much of them. But my very limited guess is that it's either braking power or thermal management holding them back. I don't get the sense from seeing the vehicle that its a structural thing but I'm certainly not an engineer so I wouldn't know. If it is the brakes, I don't see why they couldn't offer (and maybe they will) a split towing capacity that allows you to go up to 1.5k or 2k towing capacity on a trailer with brakes. I wouldn't expect 4k lbs though.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Not sure why but I have this indescribable urge to post something off topic...

 

[JoeBlow-Kokomo]

I can't argue any of the specifics of course, considering we don't know much of them. But my very limited guess is that it's either braking power or thermal management holding them back. I don't get the sense from seeing the vehicle that its a structural thing but I'm certainly not an engineer so I wouldn't know. If it is the brakes, I don't see why they couldn't offer (and maybe they will) a split towing capacity that allows you to go up to 1.5k or 2k towing capacity on a trailer with brakes. I wouldn't expect 4k lbs though.

Yeh, maybe on the next round of vehicle development if they make it to that point. My transit connect mini-van with 2.5l 4 cyl tows up to 2500 which would be nice. Tires have to be upgraded to higher load limits ($), wheels might have to depeding on rating as is. I suspect that weight reduction is part of their cost reduction and that the 1,000lb limit reflects that all over. But could certainly be wrong. 1,000 just being low enough to be a "there's a reason for this" moment.

 

[sodamo]

I was reading suggested minimum capacity this 10 toes.

 

[BobSentMe]

The only thing I *might* tow is a trailer to/from home depot.

If I have to tow more than a half ton, I'll use the wife's F150. Which has towed an SUV before, no problem.

 

[KevinRS]

The only thing I *might* tow is a trailer to/from home depot.

If I have to tow more than a half ton, I'll use the wife's F150. Which has towed an SUV before, no problem.

From what I've seen, pretty much all rental equipment ends up being over the 1k limit.

 

[GaRailroader]

PJ: Perhaps I missed it, what is the planned GCWR to be on this truck?

Slate:
Hey Patrick,

Thanks for the question!

The Slate will weigh around 3,800 lbs, with 1,000 lb towing capacity and 1,400 lb payload capacity. Official GCWR and complete specs will be ready once production starts at the end of summer.

Keep an eye out for our announcement in June where we'll be sharing more technical details.

Best,

STEPHEN

SENIOR SLATE AGENT | SLATE

 

[E90400K]

I can't argue any of the specifics of course, considering we don't know much of them. But my very limited guess is that it's either braking power or thermal management holding them back. I don't get the sense from seeing the vehicle that its a structural thing but I'm certainly not an engineer so I wouldn't know. If it is the brakes, I don't see why they couldn't offer (and maybe they will) a split towing capacity that allows you to go up to 1.5k or 2k towing capacity on a trailer with brakes. I wouldn't expect 4k lbs though.

The Ford Maverick base configuration (FWD) has a tow rating of 2,000 pounds. The Maverick AWD Hybrid can be upgraded from 2,000 pounds to 4,000 pounds with Ford's $745 tow package. The tow package includes a higher performance cooling system, transmission cooler, Class 3 hitch and a 7-pin trailer connector including a trailer brake controller. With that configuration, the AWD Hybrid 4,000 pounds tow package has a curb weight of about 3,780 pounds. So the Maverick can tow over its curb weight.

Reviewing the Munro chassis video, I saw no components that were too lightweight to support a 2,500 or even 3,500 tow rating.

Slate's position on the 1,000 pound tow rating wasn't very definitive on whether the rating was thermally limited (they sort of hinted) or range limited (they sort of hinted). Adding less than a 100 pounds of upgraded cooling system hardware (included in a towing kit) is not going to affect the efficiency rating of the Slate Truck, which is mostly drag-limited due to the general shape of pickup trucks.

The question whether Slate can change the GVWR after sale (assuming the kit is ordered at the time of sale) is unknown and probably a gray area in the FMVSS regs. Considering no other manufacturers sell a reconfigurable vehicle that changes from a 2-seat pickup truck to a 5-seat SUV, the FMVSS probably doesn't directly address safety standards for such a vehicle. Obviously Slate has found the regulations do not prohibit owner-installed equipment to convert the pickup to an SUV. I'd bet the FMVSS regs don't prohibit an owner-installed DIY tow kit either.

 

[Bayfire2441]

The Ford Maverick base configuration (FWD) has a tow rating of 2,000 pounds. The Maverick AWD Hybrid can be upgraded from 2,000 pounds to 4,000 pounds with Ford's $745 tow package. The tow package includes a higher performance cooling system, transmission cooler, Class 3 hitch and a 7-pin trailer connector including a trailer brake controller. With that configuration, the AWD Hybrid 4,000 pounds tow package has a curb weight of about 3,780 pounds. So the Maverick can tow over its curb weight.

Reviewing the Munro chassis video, I saw no components that were too lightweight to support a 2,500 or even 3,500 tow rating.

Slate's position on the 1,000 pound tow rating wasn't very definitive on whether the rating was thermally limited (they sort of hinted) or range limited (they sort of hinted). Adding less than a 100 pounds of upgraded cooling system hardware (included in a towing kit) is not going to affect the efficiency rating of the Slate Truck, which is mostly drag-limited due to the general shape of pickup trucks.

The question whether Slate can change the GVWR after sale (assuming the kit is ordered at the time of sale) is unknown and probably a gray area in the FMVSS regs. Considering no other manufacturers sell a reconfigurable vehicle that changes from a 2-seat pickup truck to a 5-seat SUV, the FMVSS probably doesn't directly address safety standards for such a vehicle. Obviously Slate has found the regulations do not prohibit owner-installed equipment to convert the pickup to an SUV. I'd bet the FMVSS regs don't prohibit an owner-installed DIY tow kit either.

One of the things I found when looking was this qoute from the NHTSA's website where you can browse their interpretations of legislation. Like I've said before, I'm no expert in any of this and I don't know the date on said interpretation, so maybe it's out of date. It makes me think that Slate doing a DIY tow package wouldn't work unless done at the factory. This is also dealing with commercial vehicles though so it is possible it wouldn't apply here. I do hope they can figure something out as even 1.5k would be better but I'm still in regardless.

"You also asked whether manufacturers may affix additional labels with a new GVWR to vehicles after they are sold for purposes other than resale, i.e., after they become used vehicles. As discussed above, the term GVWR refers to "the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle," and the GVWR is assigned by the vehicle's manufacturer as part of the certification process. Therefore, for purposes of NHTSA's regulations, a vehicle's GVWR is fixed as of the time of its first sale to a consumer. The only exception to this is if the manufacturer seeks to correct an error (e.g., calculation error or typographical error) regarding the originally assigned GVWR."

 

[GaRailroader]

GVWR is unrelated to the tow rating. I would submit that in E90400K’s example above of 2 Maverick’s, 1 with 2000 lb tow rating the other with 4000 lb tow rating, both of the Maverick’s have the same GVWR, it is the GCWR that is different.

 

[Bayfire2441]

GVWR is unrelated to the tow rating. I would submit that in E90400K’s example above of 2 Maverick’s, 1 with 2000 lb tow rating the other with 4000 lb tow rating, both of the Maverick’s have the same GVWR, it is the GCWR that is different.

Fair enough, I just figured it would most likely all follow the same rules considering all of it falls on the same spot on the vehicle but that is entirely my own interpretation there. It was also my understanding that tow packages, atleast ones that up towing capacity, are done by the factory and not dealerships. If dealerships do install tow packages that upgrade towing capacity, then I would imagine a kit would work but I have not found a lot of information form the NHTSA on any of it.