What will the Range be of Blank Slate ($24,950 version)

[GaRailroader]

Seeking the wisdom of the crowd to nail down the range of the Base Slate standard range to be announced on 6/24. We successfully used this methodology to predict the chemistry to be LFP and the base price to be sub-$25k. It seems that Slate has employed the philosophy of under-promise, over-deliver.

 

[Kopsis]

If Slate were to use an 8 module LFP (effectively same physical volume as the extended range) in the standard range instead of the 5 module NMC, then one would expect about 80% of the extended range number. If the extended range number stays at 240, then we'd be looking at 192 mi. If they padded their initial estimates a little, then I think we could see a 200 mi estimate for the standard range.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

If Slate were to use an 8 module LFP (effectively same physical volume as the extended range) in the standard range instead of the 5 module NMC, then one would expect about 80% of the extended range number. If the extended range number stays at 240, then we'd be looking at 192 mi. If they padded their initial estimates a little, then I think we could see a 200 mi estimate for the standard range.

This is what I'm really hoping for. Plus then I could get the full $2000 credit from NY.

 

[EV Trek]

Since they may have lowered the HP to gain some range I put 171-180 for the Standard range.
Hoping the Extended range will be 271-280.
But probably not going to get either one.

 

[kvermeer]

Since they may have lowered the HP to gain some range I put 171-180 for the Standard range.

I keep hearing this idea, but I don't think it's true.

Reducing max horsepower by a 10% does not result in a 15% increase in range under standardized testing conditions, it may not result in any discernable increase (especially if the motor and inverter are is physically the same and the spec reduction is just to limit the max current draw from the batteries).

Yes, higher power ICE engines are often much less efficient than lower power engines, but this is less of a factor with electric motors.

 

[GaRailroader]

This is what I'm really hoping for. Plus then I could get the full $2000 credit from NY.

I think KevinRS said something about 200 miles being a threshold for some credits in California. When Slate started in 2022 there were several vehicles with low ranges. I bought a 2022 Leaf with 150 mile range and I think both the Mini Cooper and Fiat 500e were less than that. Today, I don’t think there is a new EV with a range less than 200 miles.

 

[ElectricShitbox]

I think KevinRS said something about 200 miles being a threshold for some credits in California. When Slate started in 2022 there were several vehicles with low ranges. I bought a 2022 Leaf with 150 mile range and I think both the Mini Cooper and Fiat 500e were less than that. Today, I don’t think there is a new EV with a range less than 200 miles.

Current 500e is 149 miles. I can't think of anything else.
New York's credit is $1000 for 40-199mi, $2000 for 200+
🤞

 

[Jasman]

I still believe the slate will launch with a single battery size. There are three possibilities:

1) They might software-lock the extended battery to a 150 mile range for the base slate.
2) On June 24th, they may offer only one battery option, the extended battery on the base slate.
3) All reservation holders could receive the extended battery on the base slate initially. Later on, they might introduce a cheaper battery option for post June 24th orders, potentially arriving in 2028 or beyond.

 

[Shrink36s]

I still believe the slate will launch with a single battery size. There are three possibilities:

1) They might software-lock the extended battery to a 150 mile range for the base slate.
2) On June 24th, they may offer only one battery option, the extended battery on the base slate.
3) All reservation holders could receive the extended battery on the base slate initially. Later on, they might introduce a cheaper battery option for post June 24th orders, potentially arriving in 2028 or beyond.

Software locking the extended range battery to a lower range is the most nonsensical suggestion I’ve read in this forum. I can’t believe I’ve read it more than once. They gain nothing and only lose profit by doing this. If they can absorb the $3-5k cost of those cells and lose potential profits by not using them then it behooves them to sell at that price with the full range because it will only attract more buyers. More buyers means more sales. More sales means more profits. Basic economics here.
Where do you people come up with this stuff?

 

[GrizzlysGhost]

Where do you people come up with this stuff?

 

[Jasman]

Software locking the extended range battery to a lower range is the most nonsensical suggestion I’ve read in this forum. I can’t believe I’ve read it more than once. They gain nothing and only lose profit by doing this. If they can absorb the $3-5k cost of those cells and lose potential profits by not using them then it behooves them to sell at that price with the full range because it will only attract more buyers. More buyers means more sales. More sales means more profits. Basic economics here.
Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Why do you think Tesla did that with the Model S and X 60D? They locked a 75kWh battery down to 60kWh. This was maybe 10 years ago. What do you think the price of batteries was back then? Back in 2013, I think they had a Model S 40 (which was a 60kWh battery locked to 40kWh). It was done purely to advertise a lower base price. What was the price of batteries then?

Just based on the reservation statistics here, about 70% of people want the extended-range battery. It really doesn't make sense for Slate to offer a separate battery size that will likely have a very low take rate. Will they do it? They might, but I think it makes more sense for them to release only the extended-range battery for now and hold back on the standard-range one. I am sure they will convert more reservations to preorders if they can provide the extended range battery for $24950. Wishful thinking? maybe..

 

[Shrink36s]

... It really doesn't make sense for Slate to offer a separate battery size that will likely have a very low take rate. Will they do it? They might, but I think it makes more sense for them to release only the extended-range battery for now and hold back on the standard-range one. I am sure they will convert more reservations to preorders if they can provide the extended range battery for $24950. Wishful thinking? maybe..

Thank you for driving home my point.

Tesla is run by a mad man who was already wealthy at the time. They could do stupid where Slate cannot. Being backed by Bezos is not the same as owned and operated by wealth.

EDIT: Additionally, Tesla was solely a luxury brand at the time with much higher per-vehicle profit margins than the Slate has to play with. They could take a hit on the cost of the extra cells to get more vehicles on the road to build up more brand recognition.

 

[EV Trek]

I keep hearing this idea, but I don't think it's true.

Reducing max horsepower by a 10% does not result in a 15% increase in range under standardized testing conditions, it may not result in any discernable increase (especially if the motor and inverter are is physically the same and the spec reduction is just to limit the max current draw from the batteries).

Yes, higher power ICE engines are often much less efficient than lower power engines, but this is less of a factor with electric motors.

But I was also hoping Slate was underestimating their original figures.

 

[bloo]

I keep hearing this idea, but I don't think it's true.

Reducing max horsepower by a 10% does not result in a 15% increase in range under standardized testing conditions, it may not result in any discernable increase (especially if the motor and inverter are is physically the same and the spec reduction is just to limit the max current draw from the batteries).

Yes, higher power ICE engines are often much less efficient than lower power engines, but this is less of a factor with electric motors.

I think range will increase to 180 miles. I'm considering three factors...

• HP reduction. This will give a few miles and add maybe half a second to the 0-60 time. Wah.
• Filling the pack to capacity with LFP cells (1). Energey density is lower, but using all the previously vacant space will more than make up for it.
• Filling the pack to capacity with LFP cells (2). More cells (assuming they're in series) returns a higher pack voltage. This lowers current requirements for the same power and increases efficiency.

I expect vehicle weight will rise to 3750 pounds with the extra cells, ofsetting some of the gains above. This brings into play hauling and towing capacity. With both standard and long range vehicles nearly the same weight, the rated capacities could be identical.

 

[Kopsis]

I think range will increase to 180 miles. I'm considering three factors...

• HP reduction. This will give a few miles and add maybe half a second to the 0-60 time. Wah.
• Filling the pack to capacity with LFP cells (1). Energey density is lower, but using all the previously vacant space will more than make up for it.
• Filling the pack to capacity with LFP cells (2). More cells (assuming they're in series) returns a higher pack voltage. This lowers current requirements for the same power and increases efficiency.

I expect vehicle weight will rise to 3750 pounds with the extra cells, ofsetting some of the gains above. This brings into play hauling and towing capacity. With both standard and long range vehicles nearly the same weight, the rated capacities could be identical.

EPA range tests start from a 100% SOC and run the battery to the point where the vehicle can no longer continue the test protocol. The ability of LFP to handle frequent 100% charging with less SOH degradation wouldn't have any bearing on the official range number (though it has obvious benefits in practical use).