NMC -vs- LFP Batteries

[JeffVA]

Slate will use NMC batteries and after discovering the differences I don't know why they made that decision. Just to highlight a few concerns:

NMC batteries will generally only charge for up to 2,000 cycles compared to 10,000 cycles for LFP.

NMC batteries should only be charged to 80% (120 mile range now) compared to 100% for LFP Batteries.

NMC batteries are much more expensive than LFP Batteries.

NMC batteries are more prone to thermal degradation then LFP Batteries and result in most EV fires.

LFP Batteries need to be larger than NMC batteries to get the same power but that trade off doesn't seem worth it.

There are other ethical issues with cobalt as well.

So why did Slate choose what appears to be an inferior battery?

 

[MiketheCarGeek]

There is not a supply of LFP Batteries in the U.S. Suppliers like LG Energy, Samsung, Panasonic and SK On (Slate’s supplier) all bet on Nickel Cobalt (NMC, NCA, NCMA) for higher energy density but other drawbacks.

Gotion (Rivian’s LFP supplier) tried to build a plant in Michigan, but it became political. Ford is still moving forward with a plant to make LFP in Marshall MI but people still protest every Saturday because they are licensing a CHINESE design from CATL.

 

[raybythelake]

Slate will use NMC batteries and after discovering the differences I don't know why they made that decision. Just to highlight a few concerns:

NMC batteries will generally only charge for up to 2,000 cycles compared to 10,000 cycles for LFP.

NMC batteries should only be charged to 80% (120 mile range now) compared to 100% for LFP Batteries.

NMC batteries are much more expensive than LFP Batteries.

NMC batteries are more prone to thermal degradation then LFP Batteries and result in most EV fires.

LFP Batteries need to be larger than NMC batteries to get the same power but that trade off doesn't seem worth it.

There are other ethical issues with cobalt as well.

So why did Slate choose what appears to be an inferior battery?

Lithium Iron Phosphate cells weigh more for a given output than NMC cells. Chevy Bolt 2026 is going to LiFePo, but most other EV's have opted for the weight savings of NMC. I agree that there are many reasons to stay away from NMC.

 

[JeffVA]

Lithium Iron Phosphate cells weigh more for a given output than NMC cells. Chevy Bolt 2026 is going to LiFePo, but most other EV's have opted for the weight savings of NMC. I agree that there are many reasons to stay away from NMC.

After my YouTube/Google EV battery education it is very clear to me that China is light years ahead of us in EV's. LFP should be the standard and MNC is the very best we can do? These batteries suck, sorry to say.

We should just admit defeat and let China start importing their EV's so we have access to some good ones like BYD.

Who looks 3rd world now?

 

[catiare]

After my YouTube/Google EV battery education it is very clear to me that China is light years ahead of us in EV's. LFP should be the standard and MNC is the very best we can do? These batteries suck, sorry to say.

We should just admit defeat and let China start importing their EV's so we have access to some good ones like BYD.

Who looks 3rd world now?

And the irony is that the technology was invented in North America.

 

[renostever]

…and they only choose a pope from ascending or declining countries, not superpowers.

 

[1yeliab_sufur1]

lol yah them teriffs would heavily impact the price I bet wait are there still tariffs on china pls never trust a commy

 

[AZFox]

NMC batteries should only be charged to 80% (120 mile range now) compared to 100% for LFP Batteries.

According to something I read they should be operated between 20% and 80% and not discharged completely, so make that 90 miles as a practical matter.

 

[1yeliab_sufur1]

Maybe in the future we will see better battery options but right now it seems the whole market isn’t stable enough but slate might have the option to take it into them to upgrade your battery which would be nice or maybe trade in incentives for there second big launch when production is more established and they can expand

 

[TexasSlate]

Chevy Bolt owner here. Having driven an NMC-powered car for two and a half years, I'm not going to worry about the battery chemistry of the Slate. Everything said above is more-or-less accurate, but the difference in real-world battery longevity isn't that big of a deal. Keep the charge in the middle of capacity (e.g., between 40-60% capacity), and you can expect the battery to last over 500,000 miles.

True, the manufacturer has to implement good thermal management of the battery. My Bolt has a separate radiator system just to heat and cool the battery to keep it in the sweet spot temperature-wise. The real horror stories about early NMC batteries degrading quickly and greatly involve cars like the Nissan Leaf which have air-cooled batteries. Not a good idea in places like Arizona or Texas.

I use Recurrent, an EV dashboard that logs your car's performance. After 41K miles and two and a half years, my battery has lost about 4% range. After 5 and a half years (about 100K miles), it estimates Ill have lost about 9% range.

In the end, yes, I'd prefer LFP batteries, but I'm not worried about NMC chemistries.

 

[evtruth]

Slate will use NMC batteries and after discovering the differences I don't know why they made that decision. Just to highlight a few concerns:

NMC batteries will generally only charge for up to 2,000 cycles compared to 10,000 cycles for LFP.

NMC batteries should only be charged to 80% (120 mile range now) compared to 100% for LFP Batteries.

NMC batteries are much more expensive than LFP Batteries.

NMC batteries are more prone to thermal degradation then LFP Batteries and result in most EV fires.

LFP Batteries need to be larger than NMC batteries to get the same power but that trade off doesn't seem worth it.

There are other ethical issues with cobalt as well.

So why did Slate choose what appears to be an inferior battery?

I like the additional safety and cycles of LFP, but NMC is better on the power/torque side from what I've read. I'm still not sure you have to worry about charge cycles on the NMCs, I've seen countless 200K+ mile Teslas. At 200K miles you've pretty much saved the ENTIRE Slate truck's purchase price in fuel (over a 24 MPG vehicle), so you're still WAY ahead.

 

[cadblu]

Another advantage over being smaller is that NMC batteries weigh less (~ 20%) all other things being equal. I think this factored into the decision on a smallish truck.

 

[1yeliab_sufur1]

Yah wight plays into a big factor but everything right now is assumed range so with out further testing we can know it’s actually rang yet

 

[Tom Sawyer]

According to something I read they should be operated between 20% and 80% and not discharged completely, so make that 90 miles as a practical matter.

I used to think the same and have practiced as such. That is, until I watched these videos:

How To Ruin Your Electric Car's Battery - NMC Edition!


How To Ruin Your Electric Car's Battery - LFP Edition!


And most significant: EV Battery Health with Dr Jeff Dahn Dalhousie U


The video with Dr. Jeff Dahn is about an hour long with solid data from a researcher. This starts the video at a summary of his points:

 

[cadblu]

Thanks for posting these informative videos. It’s very helpful to understand the chemistry behind EV charging practices. In practical terms, the key takeaways are:

• performing 2 separate charge sessions over a couple of days, each consuming 30 kWh each is way better than a single charge consuming 60 kWh.
• Even better, performing 3 separate charge sessions over a few days, each consuming 20 kWh each is way better than a single charge consuming 60 kWh.
• Don’t store your EV at a high SOC % in hot climates

Finally, in an interview Musk explained why it takes so long to charge from 80% to 100%. Sometimes as long as charging from 20 to 80%. His answer (we can ALL relate to this):

You need to equate the charged particles (ions) to a car trying finding a space in a crowded parking lot. As the parking lot fills up, you need to drive around the lot more times to find an open space, often passing the same areas multiple times. You keep driving around hoping someone pulled out, and then you get there and another car (ion) beat you to it! 🙁